Banana drama

[livinoz]

On the other hand, we can just be irrational and cling to an idea without trying to understand why.

Like not trying to understand someone's beliefs, culture, or superstitions, if you like?

 

[Boxcar Overkill]

I've read here for a while too, and can I just say I believe that there is a whole range of empirical knowledge not "based" on the scientific method; oral knowledge predated written by some millennia. And "superstitions", whether we personally believe them or not, usually have some historical or cultural basis. The thing with Western cultures is that we need that written, reproducible proof, and when we come up against something that we don't understand, we discount it as being "unscientific" and therefore false. For a good, reproducible proof, look at the Micronesian navigators, who pass down the most intricate knowledge with no written records at all.

I think respect for other cultures and beliefs, as Teamcasa has said, is important. And maybe the inital "banana" problem was more in the method of asking than in what was asked.

I accept the tradition vs. superstition argument.

But that doesn't mean all ideas are equally sound. Some ideas, in fact, are worthy of ridicule. This banana superstition is one such idea. The bell is another. Because if you really believe that a banana on your boat is bad luck, or a bell on your bike is good luck, then you're willing to believe just about anything. Why not oranges in your bathtub? Potato chips in your wallet?

No matter how extraordinary the claim, nor the lack of evidence to prove it true, some people are willing to believe just about anything. They are willing to accept the wildest theories as true, without checking to see if they conflict with everything else they know about the way the world operates. It's not that these people are stupid, but on these matters they are certainly willfully ignorant. They've suspend their disbelief on matters they should rightfully be skeptical about.

 

[merxlin]

I think most people can agree that bananas are not magical. Therefor why should we respect the belief of someone who thinks they are?

Would you say the same thing if there was a cross, Star of David, or Virgin Mary statue at the gate when you got on the boat?

More importantly, why should we place our trust in this individual?

So anyone who has an irrational (to you) belief should not be trusted? Would you hold the same feeling the banana incident happened on the 20th or 50th satisfactory trip with this captain, with you never knowing he had this superstition?

I look at it this way: he is so focused on safety that he is covering all the bases. Now, except for maybe being a bit hungry, I am free to dive and enjoy the trip.

 

[Boxcar Overkill]

On a side note, I happen to know the micronesian navigator who recently led the Yap group to Palau, sans any modern navigation equipment. 100% traditional method. He's going to teach a celestial navigation course here this fall that I'm going to take. Pretty cool.

 

[livinoz]

I accept the tradition vs. superstition argument.

No matter how extraordinary the claim, nor the lack of evidence to prove it true, some people are willing to believe just about anything. They are willing to accept the wildest theories as true, without checking to see if they conflict with everything else they know about the way the world operates. It's not that these people are stupid, but on these matters they are certainly willfully ignorant. They've suspend their disbelief on matters they should rightfully be skeptical about.

I know there are those who "suspend disbelief", and those to whom no amount of evidence will convince otherwise, but what I was meaning is that we have to approach these "superstitions" with an open mind. Of course each person is free to reject the notion, but I think we need to be mindful of other cultures, and beliefs which mean something to them (not the banana thing particularly!) and treat people respectfully while agreeing to disagree!

On a side note, I happen to know the micronesian navigator who recently led the Yap group to Palau, sans any modern navigation equipment. 100% traditional method. He's going to teach a celestial navigation course here this fall that I'm going to take. Pretty cool.

How fantastic! What an opportunity to watch this traditional knowledge in action! Let us know how it goes!

 

[seaducer]

Would you say the same thing if there was a cross, Star of David, or Virgin Mary statue at the gate when you got on the boat?

Yes, they are just objects, much like the banana, and not magical at all. Unless you are facing vampires, none of those objects will miraculously help you if you are in a jam.

More importantly, why should we place our trust in this individual?

So anyone who has an irrational (to you) belief should not be trusted? Would you hold the same feeling the banana incident happened on the 20th or 50th satisfactory trip with this captain, with you never knowing he had this superstition?

I look at it this way: he is so focused on safety that he is covering all the bases. Now, except for maybe being a bit hungry, I am free to dive and enjoy the trip.

For one, whether something is irrational or not is fact, not opinion, so the "to you" has no relevence. For example, it is fact, not my opinion that the sky is blue.

If you can show me repeatable, falsifiable evidence that magic exists, I will stipulate that bananas may have magical properties, and thus the belief may not be founded, but certainly not irrational. Until then, belief in magic is irrational. (BTW that has nothing to do with me, individually. I will take a large scientific consensus)

Now, if I get on a dive boat here is Jersey, and the boat captain goes off about my banana, that automatically tells me this guy is off his rocker with that belief, and I wonder what else is wrong with him.

It is one thing if he is not comfortable with the idea of the banana, but does nothing. That means he at least knows his feelings are silly. However if he, as in the op, comes over and grabs my banana(keep it straight you sickos) and tosses it overboard, that is wholley another issue. Now this guy has boarderline assualted me, certainly caused a scene and perhaps a fight. Obviously he feels very strongly that bananas are magical objects, and he is more than just a tad irrational, he is dangerously so. And you bet I don't trust him.

 

[LeadTurn_SD]

As an ex-Merchant Marine officer, I'll add one more seagoing tradition: No Whistling On Board!. The bosun at the Maritime Academy explained that this stemmed from the days of sailing ships, and whistling was thought call up a storm. He was dead serious, and if he heard you whistling onboard you'd be VERY sorry

Oh, and as a boat owner in Hawaii: NO BANANAS ON BOARD MY BOAT!!! Seriously. Leave them at home. Women are however just fine (Wife is co-owner of the boat).

 

[Sas]

I think if captains want to people to stop eating bananas on their boat, that's cool, it's their boat so they can do what they want. But yea, I would not dive on a boat where the captain is clearly an irrational person with irrational beliefs.

 

[maged_mmh]

so far:
Boating contrabands list:
1. Bananas
2.Women
3.whistles (or is it Whistling "verb"?)

 

[seaducer]

As an ex-Merchant Marine officer, I'll add one more seagoing tradition: No Whistling On Board!. The bosun at the Maritime Academy explained that this stemmed from the days of sailing ships, and whistling was thought call up a storm. He was dead serious, and if he heard you whistling onboard you'd be VERY sorry

Oh, and as a boat owner in Hawaii: NO BANANAS ON BOARD MY BOAT!!! Seriously. Leave them at home. Women are however just fine (Wife is co-owner of the boat).

Relatedly, whenever it rained while we were in the field, one of my fellow soldiers would curse the rain god. Most all the time it rained harder. It still works, or seems to. Or would if I believed that A- there is a Rain God and B- its ego is so vulnerable that my cursing it would cause it distress.

I always thought the no whistling thing stemmed from the days when commmands were issued via a whistle, and so you whistling would confuse other sailors.

When I owned a boat, I allowed bananas, and nothing bad ever happened. However the reason I no longer own a boat is female, so I would be careful, were I you...