Bad breathing gas on liveaboard trip

[John C. Ratliff]

Would the tanks be considered "safe" if nothing came up on a test? I know there's a lot of people that wouldn't risk it, but what is the risk if there's nothing but a less than ideal taste?

My nose / sense of smell is fubar. Outside of testing I don't really have a way of knowing unless it's really potent. That's why I ask.

You raise a good question. However, I just looked up the requirements for “Grade D Breathing Air” under OSHA, and one of the parameters is:

1910.134(i)(1)(ii)(E)
Lack of noticeable odor.

Since there is a noticeable odor, this air did not meet the minumum standards for Grade D Breathing Air. Since this standard does allow for CO2 and CO (1000 ppm for CO2, 10 ppm for CO), even Grade D breathing air may not be appropriate for scuba diving, especially to depths greater than two atmospheres absolute (10 meters, 33 feet of sea water).

Scroll down toward the bottom of this regulation and you’ll see the requirements from OSHA for air on the surface for firefighters and others, but like I said, not necessalily for divers.

1910.134 - Respiratory protection. | Occupational Safety and Health Administration

www.osha.gov

SeaRat

 

[John C. Ratliff]

These threads scare me, because I'm worried about what I would do in such a situation. I feel like so many people here are adament that they'd "never breath gas that smells off" and "they would be livid" and would "cause a sh*tshow" (these aren't actual quotes but basically paraphrases) and my response is...

I'm jealous of your resolve. I'm not sure I would do the same.

My first thought would be, "it's all in my head". If my buddy also said something seemed wrong, but the DM's kept going, I would probably say..."it's all in OUR heads." By the time other people mentioned it, I think I'd have the resolve of doing something about it, but before then I'm just not sure I would.

I guess it could be a sign of weak character. "I'm a sheep." Or maybe it's my general disposition to confrontation. Would I be willing to "non-confrontationally" walk myself off a cliff? Maybe it seems like that, I'm not sure.

So what's the goal of this post? I'm not exactly sure, but maybe it's that if you're in this situation and you ARE someone who doesn't take crap from anyone and are hardheaded, please stand up. Because there are other people who probably also agree with you but lack the fortitude to actually do anything about it. Be a shepherd for us sheep

Remember, if you can smell anything, it’s not Grade D Breathing Air.

SeaRat

 

[joncampo91]

Def get a refund

 

[DrWilliam]

In follow up, Aggressor Adventures made no response whatsoever to the following group letter sent to the Owner and CEO, Wayne Browne ,and COO, Larry Speaker, which was sent to them 5 weeks ago:


Dear Wayne,

The disappointing details of our recent trip were summarized quite well in the letter from my friend (redacted), dated April 5, which he sent to you immediately after our trip. I agree with all of his comments about the disappointments and poor quality we experienced. In fact, I believe you are likely quite aware of the timing of events at this point.

However, I would like to comment further on the safety concerns we experienced and the way in which they were addressed. As this feedback deals with the safety of lives, I am confident you will want to take the time to listen.

I am an intensive care physician and medical educator, and I have received extensive training on safety and preventing errors which injure human beings. I am also an aviation enthusiast, which has further honed my thinking on safety and human errors. With this background, I would like to inform you that the safety culture we experienced aboard the Socorro Aggressor was frankly egregious and completely unacceptable for a high-risk activity like scuba diving.

Multiple divers on multiple occasions noted concerns about their breathing gas smelling and tasting noxious yet dives repeatedly continued. Divers were left to make their own decision to continue diving yet with little or no information about why the breathing gas was noxious or if it was in fact safe. There was no information on gas analysis or carbon monoxide analysis occurring. Vague reassurances were given from the dive masters and engineer that “everything was fine.” Meanwhile some divers experienced physical symptoms including cough, nausea, headache, and dizziness. As has been well described and documented in the below references, Divers Alert Network (Ref 1) reports these symptoms are consistent with carbon monoxide poisoning, or inhalation of oil and/or volatile hydrocarbons. Almost unbelievably, a dive master aborted his own group’s dive five minutes after descent due to concerns about the breathing gas, but the other two tenders of divers were not recalled and were left to continue a dive under these same gas conditions. This was, at best, a NEAR-MISS and could have resulted in death. It is physiologically plausible that multiple divers may have experienced severe injury.

As documented in the below references, inhalation of contaminated breathing gas has previously resulted in the death of scuba divers (Ref 2,3) with improper maintenance of compressors and inadequate training of staff being found as causative contributing factors by the Coroner’s Court of Queensland. Additionally, any odor in breathing air is an automatic fail according to Canadian standards Z180 and Z275 and should not be used (Ref 4).

It is my firm belief that multiple divers’ lives were directly put at risk through the choices made by the operators aboard the Socorro Aggressor. We are now over 15 days since disembarkation and have received no follow-up regarding these events and this is utterly unacceptable.

This situation was due to negligence, not an act of God or weather, so there is a direct responsibility of the company involved. I require a full refund, not prorated and not a credit. Furthermore, I require an explanation of the processes and safety training changes going forward that will be implemented as a result of this incident. I would like to be reassured that the Aggressor brand signifies the highest quality and safety standards in the industry, something I’m sure you would agree with.

Wayne, as the owner and CEO of Aggressor Adventures, I expect a personal response in writing from you regarding these concerns.

Sincerely,

(Signed by 16 divers aboard)


References:

1. Diver’s Alert Network. Breathing Gas Contamination. Breathing Gas Contamination - Divers Alert Network
2. CITATION: Inquest into the death of Andrew John Thwaites TITLE OF COURT: Coroners Court JURISDICTION: Brisbane FILE NO(s): 2016/3336 DELIVERED ON: 24 July 2018 DELIVERED AT: Brisbane HEARING DATE(s): 28 June 2017, 25 September 2017. FINDINGS OF: Christine Clements, Brisbane Coroner https://www.courts.qld.gov.au/__data/assets/pdf_file/0004/577093/cif-thwaites-aj-20180724.pdf
3. July, 2008. Undercurrent. The Baani Adventure’s Lethal Air Compressor. The Baani Adventures Lethal Air Compressor: Undercurrent 07/2008
4. Canadian Standards Association (CSA) guidelines CSA Z180.1 (Compressed breathing air systems), CSA Z275.2 (Occupational Diving Operations).

 

[rick00001967]

and you most likely won't get one unless it is a watered down carefully drafted response that admits to absolutely nothing.

 

[Shasta_man]

Not surprised at no response. This is just another of this same general storyline we have heard before. Problem followed by inadequate compensation or no response. Apparently they are not impacting the bottom line enough to affect change. That's likely because several people have good trips while a lower percentage have your trip. I have had a good experience but because of stories like yours I dont assign much value to their one big fleet promotion and every time I see a story like yours it ends as unsatisfactory. Very sorry to read your story and glad you didnt die in it.

 

[Doby45]

Personally, I would not go on any remote vacation/liveaboard without my O2 analyzer and my CO analyzer. It is called cheap insurance.

 

[Lorenzoid]

So many stories have reinforced my understanding of just how independent each Aggressor boat is from any centralized entity with quality control authority. If it’s a franchise system, QC is too loose for my comfort.

 

[DrWilliam]

Personally, I would not go on any remote vacation/liveaboard without my O2 analyzer and my CO analyzer. It is called cheap insurance.

Great points!

 

[DrWilliam]

So many stories have reinforced my understanding of just how independent each Aggressor boat is from any centralized entity with quality control authority. If it’s franchise system, QC is too loose for my comfort.

I admit I went into this thinking their fancy advertising meant they were the "best of the best." Clearly not the case with their franchise system.