Are you a stroke?

[Divesherpa]

The simple fact that a term like stroke evolved and is used is the primary reason I started this thread.
Jim wrote,"I assumed that you read the definition that I and most DIR divers have for stroke."
Why don't we change it to "guy who strokes", or "guy who wishes he knew what I've forgotten", or "student", or "teacher", or "friend".
The Holier-than-thou attitude than came up with a name for others who practice different beliefs or simply don't know better is why I call myself by that name. I don't hold any illusions that I am or will ever be a great diver. Diving is meant to be fun, and for me it is. It's not a competition where one is better than any other. Some "strokes" may know things that you will never figure out and vice versa.

Can't we all just get along!!!
eace:

 

[jimholcomb]

Originally posted by omar
jim,

this is a thread where pete got his first exposure to DIR and the resulting evolution of his opinion.

http://www.scubaboard.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=1434

omar

Other than the discussions of semantics (the name DIR, ect..) I thought it was a very civilized and thought provoking thread. I so no arrogance and belittling in the responses.

Just for the record, I have no problem with people disagreeing with my type of diving. I feel disagreement stimulates discussion. Even though I am a DIR-advocate I still search out exposure to all philosophies and configurations. For example, sidemount is of some interest to me. I don't "belittle" people because of their choices. Hell, it's none of my business. The problem I have is with people that just want to argue semantics ie the DIR name, the attitude of some advocates, the use of the word stroke, ect...
Most people who know me will tell you that I'll call down a DIR advocate that I feel is out of line faster than I will an opponent of DIR.

The point to all this is if we are going to debate something such as the DIR philosophy - debate it with alternatives. Be FOR something else - not just AGAINST DIR. I'm open-minded as the next and have never ridiculed someone who had a different line of thought than I as long as it made sense.

 

[Divesherpa]

FWIW,
I support the philosophy of DIR from the standpoints of safety and team unity. I don't always practice them. Some examples, I dive independents for safety purposes. I dive with a lot of people, most of which are non-DIR. It only takes a couple of minutes to get accustomed to a slightly different gear configuration. DIR alone has many merits, most of which come not from DIR/GUE/WKPP, but are implemented from other areas and organizations.
There is an interesting thread that was here about a month or so ago about ways that we aren't DIR. Someone with more computer savvy can link to it if they would like. The shear number of posts to this thread(both for and against) are indicative of the emotion surrounding the topic.
I did notice that some of the DIR guys (nothing personal) spent quite a bit of time telling others that they weren't strokes or trying to defend why they weren't strokes.
One little word speaks so much about a philosophy.

As a side note, I was reading the GUE's write up to Cow Springs and was taken aback by the tone in which this was written. I totally understand the herd mentality concept, but for an agency to have such slanderous remarks (albeit some may have been deserved, but that's opinion) on a site and their "followers" not even realize that they are absorbing this crap is a shame.
Does this type of leader/follower relationship remind anyone of anything else in society?
Texas Mike posted a great parody from another forum on this subject. It has to be the funniest I've ever seen.

Cheers and safe diving, DIR or non-DIR

jdr

 

[Uncle Pug]

I find it very interesting that so many were bold enough to catagorically deny strokedom in the poll.

You can call yourself a stroke and no one will pick you apart and find something DIR in your diving and then call you a liar and a DIR diver....

But as any DIR diver knows...
The claim to 100% strokelessness is fraught with that very danger

 

[AquaTec]

So I don't really give a crap, who is DIR, stroke or non-stroke. I would however like to know some information I have picked up here about the DIR method.

Side mounts. Why do you have all of them on one side?
I have heard several reasons but still don't get it.

To me it is about balance, I some times carry two 80's and two 30's under the arms. Yes that’s a lot I am going to start mounting a third tank between my dbles to eliminate the 30's

My light mounts on my right side with no obstructions and my tank even offers some protection for it.

Free hands - I have no problem with free hands

This is just information I would like to know, then I will decide how to incorporate it, and what ever religious belief [or lack of] that drops me into well so be it.

 

[Divesherpa]

What is meant by sidemount with both cylinders on one side? There are many around with much more sidemount experience than I, like Dell Motes, but sidemount is having a bottle on both side, and doubling stages with the bottles. Sidemount is used for several reasons. 1. to get into areas you couldn't get into in backmounted doubles. 2. two totally independent gas sources. 3. Some people are unable to dive backmount and sidemount is a much easier way to dive (partial paralysis, nerve damage, sore back, etc.) none of these guys are DIR, but I've seen some really good sidemount divers who couldn't get their gear to the water. They wouldn't be much help on a surface rescue, but 2500 feet back, surface rescue isn't as much of an issue.
There are several more reasons to sidemount, but prior to any sidemount diving (it's not for everybody) I would recommend taking a class from Bill Rennaker or one of the other sidemount only divers who instruct. WWW.sidemount.com

Cheers

 

[MikeFerrara]

By my definition I am not a stroke. However I am not GUE trained and there may be some details in the way I dive that are not strict DIR (don’t know for sure). My kit has a very distinctive Hogarthian flavor. I have found what works for me. I didn’t need to invent it. I continually seek to improve and learn. When not training others I am usually being trained. I might even take a GUE course someday.

I start my cave training next month. My instructor is NACD, IANTD and maybe NSS. I chose the instructor more than the agency.

Being a Halcyon dealer I have had the opportunity to speak to J.J. on the phone. I’ve never detected the offensive attitude sometimes associated with DIR. My impression was that I was speaking to knowledgeable, considerate professional. I have, however, seen that attitude in the writings of G.I. and others. The WKPP are not the only ones who do “real dives”. The dives they do are not proof that they are the only ones who know how to dive. However, IMO it’s proof that they are good and worth listening to. There are others who are also worth listening to.

In the end, when I dive (especially when it’s deep and long) it’s my (and my teammates) neck at risk, I (we) am responsible and I (we) will make the decisions.

 

[Dell Motes]

"Sidemount" in its' true meaning, refers to your primary gas supply being two seperate bottles, one on each side, versus a set of doubles on your back.
Divesherpa pointed out the reasons for it.
Woody Jasper actually brought this to light many years ago in the cave diving being done in North Florida.
It was actually being used by sump divers all over the world many years previous to this, but with smaller bottles just being used to traverse short sumps.
Woody was really the first to advocate much larger bottles for serious submerged caving.

In DIR, all bottles (other than your backmounts) evolved to one side for various reasons.
A large canister light was on the right waist.
The standard use of a DPV is to drive right handed, light on the left hand for signaling, derigging and handling gas switches is also done with the left hand, therefore all bottles on the left.
The use of a DPV is not optional in the diving done where this evolved, so their system evolved naturally and logically. A diver so configured can handle bottles and signaling without ever stopping the DPV, which means un-interrupted motoring.
I can only assume this carried over to non- DPV diving from a simple standpoint of standardization of configuration.

 

[jimholcomb]

Originally posted by MikeFerrara
By my definition I am not a stroke. However I am not GUE trained and there may be some details in the way I dive that are not strict DIR (don’t know for sure). My kit has a very distinctive Hogarthian flavor. I have found what works for me. I didn’t need to invent it. I continually seek to improve and learn. When not training others I am usually being trained. I might even take a GUE course someday.

I start my cave training next month. My instructor is NACD, IANTD and maybe NSS. I chose the instructor more than the agency.

Being a Halcyon dealer I have had the opportunity to speak to J.J. on the phone. I’ve never detected the offensive attitude sometimes associated with DIR. My impression was that I was speaking to knowledgeable, considerate professional. I have, however, seen that attitude in the writings of G.I. and others. The WKPP are not the only ones who do “real dives”. The dives they do are not proof that they are the only ones who know how to dive. However, IMO it’s proof that they are good and worth listening to. There are others who are also worth listening to.

In the end, when I dive (especially when it’s deep and long) it’s my (and my teammates) neck at risk, I (we) am responsible and I (we) will make the decisions.

I've always thought that if the DIR advocates changed the name to "modified Hogarthian" we probably wouldn't have the bad taste that is associated with the name. Incidently, I don't know whos been following techdiver lately, but it seems like someone kidnapped George and put an understanding, articulate person in his place. The deco discussion has been very enlightning without all the BS.

 

[DocRCH]

I guess that we all experience a learning curve in our diving. A lot of the tech divers out of VA Beach dive with a Hogartian configuration, so I would describe myself as a pseudo-stroke.

Robert:doctor: