Does using TurboTax make one a bad citizen... One might be filing taxes, year after year, without a shred of understanding of any of the numbers... Does using auto transmission, and not knowing how the clutch works, make one a bad driver... Does not recycling make us a bad person?! IMHO, this is a somewhat artificial controversy resulting from an arbitrarily drawn thick line that separates the "good" from the "bad". If you replace the "good" and "bad" with "better prepared" vs. "potentially more prone to complacency", the controversy disappears...
Are dive computers making bad divers?
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The TurboTax analogy is valid, because ... like your dive computer ... misuse of the product can result in a penalty. Doesn't make you bad, but DCS ... like the IRS ... won't go easier on you simply because you didn't understand the program ...
... Bob (Grateful Diver)
... Bob (Grateful Diver)
Chugwhump
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Dive Computers are only as good as the diver utilizing them.
Dive tables are only as good as the diver using it.
Since the computers came along, diving is more enjoyable.
PERIOD!
Since Nitrox became commonplace, diving is more rewarding.
PERIOD!
Since giant steel tanks became available, diving is a whole lot longer in duration, and more fun.
PERIOD!
I have been diving since 1977.
I started with steel 72's and a backpack with a stupid Mae West B.C. thing ripping my crotch and my neck to pieces, while a pair of ill fitting Voit Viking fins were rubbing my feet raw over the cotton socks I wore under them.
All of of the new gear and technology we utilize these days is better.
PERIOD!
But.....
Divers are nowhere near as well trained as we were back in the "good old" (crappy, illfitting, uncomfortable, unreliable, gear) days.
Because diving lessons used to cost about $350 in the late 70's here in South Florida.
You can now get a $99 certification.
Chug
Thinks the old days mostly sucked.
Dive tables are only as good as the diver using it.
Since the computers came along, diving is more enjoyable.
PERIOD!
Since Nitrox became commonplace, diving is more rewarding.
PERIOD!
Since giant steel tanks became available, diving is a whole lot longer in duration, and more fun.
PERIOD!
I have been diving since 1977.
I started with steel 72's and a backpack with a stupid Mae West B.C. thing ripping my crotch and my neck to pieces, while a pair of ill fitting Voit Viking fins were rubbing my feet raw over the cotton socks I wore under them.
All of of the new gear and technology we utilize these days is better.
PERIOD!
But.....
Divers are nowhere near as well trained as we were back in the "good old" (crappy, illfitting, uncomfortable, unreliable, gear) days.
Because diving lessons used to cost about $350 in the late 70's here in South Florida.
You can now get a $99 certification.
Chug
Thinks the old days mostly sucked.
The Chairman
Chairman of the Board
Tables are stupid. Tables are antiquated. Tables aren't responsive or flexible. People who believe that you can't teach decompression without use of tables, really don't understand decompression themselves. I would teach tables only if a student begged me to teach them and my opinion of that student would drop accordingly. People who feel tables are important to learn are just as deluded as those who feel that the Commodore is still a viable computing platform. It should be noted that I am withholding how I really feel about them.
I respectfully disagree with this statement. When I first started diving, divers didn't worry at all about buoyancy. The biggest selling point of my first pair of fins was that I could kick the crap out of the reef and not hurt the fin.
Which I fully agree with. We look at the past with rose colored glasses. Scuba is getting more neutral, one instructor at a time.
I agree for the most part, with the exception of the wetsuits. Granted, the currently available blended Neoprenes available now are more stretchy and flexible than Rubatex G231n, but much more compressible. I feel as cold at 60' with a 7mm suit as my old 1/4" Rubatex suits felt at 150'. The cut was the same and all the suits were custom... but I am older.
Last edited:
Eric Sedletzky
Contributor
Really bad divers are the ones that have problems way beyond being too clueless about how to use their computer, and there are some.
Like it was mentioned earlier in the thread, there are things that make divers worse than not knowing tables and relying on computers.
In the old days people relied on the tables, so did that make them as stupid as someone relying on a computer now? Where else is the info supposed to come from? One is a manual form and the other an electronic form, but in the end they are supposed to do roughly the same thing.
I think the really bad divers are the ones that crash into coral, have no clue about weighting or buoyancy control, stir up the bottom, needlessly harass marine life, constantly take off on their buddy when it's supposed to be a buddy dive, have all their gear a mess hanging and catching on everything, have miserable basic skills and are an accident waiting to happen, are obnoxious and annoying up on the boat deck or topside,.. and so on.
The computer part pales in comparison to some of these other issues.
Like it was mentioned earlier in the thread, there are things that make divers worse than not knowing tables and relying on computers.
In the old days people relied on the tables, so did that make them as stupid as someone relying on a computer now? Where else is the info supposed to come from? One is a manual form and the other an electronic form, but in the end they are supposed to do roughly the same thing.
I think the really bad divers are the ones that crash into coral, have no clue about weighting or buoyancy control, stir up the bottom, needlessly harass marine life, constantly take off on their buddy when it's supposed to be a buddy dive, have all their gear a mess hanging and catching on everything, have miserable basic skills and are an accident waiting to happen, are obnoxious and annoying up on the boat deck or topside,.. and so on.
The computer part pales in comparison to some of these other issues.
I agree 110%
This is why we created our classes and simulators!
I often disagree with Eric, but on this topic I am in complete agreement. Well said!
I should add that I teach tables as a number of my students don't see the need for computers on OW level dives with NDL's lasting much longer than their air supply. They don't want to spend 200 bucks on a computer when that money will pay for several weekends of rental gear to dive locally. I don't push computers on them.
That said once Deep 6 releases theirs I'm buying a few for student use and rentals. That is one I will recommend since the price is right on it. Before they buy one though I want them to rent or borrow one to make sure they want it. I'll still teach tables though as SEI requires it and the shop rental gear we use for checkouts has analog gauges. They either use a watch with the depth gauge or use one of my bottom timers. Around here locally square profiles are much more common. For those tables work well and help to develop some discipline to make a plan and stick to the planned depth.
Students are told that while a DM may lead a group down into coral canyons, through swim thru's, etc. they do not have to follow if their planned profile depth would be exceeded.
That said once Deep 6 releases theirs I'm buying a few for student use and rentals. That is one I will recommend since the price is right on it. Before they buy one though I want them to rent or borrow one to make sure they want it. I'll still teach tables though as SEI requires it and the shop rental gear we use for checkouts has analog gauges. They either use a watch with the depth gauge or use one of my bottom timers. Around here locally square profiles are much more common. For those tables work well and help to develop some discipline to make a plan and stick to the planned depth.
Students are told that while a DM may lead a group down into coral canyons, through swim thru's, etc. they do not have to follow if their planned profile depth would be exceeded.
I don't think computers are a bad thing. Blind reliance on them is.
For shore diving tables are way too conservative. For square profile dives though they are great.
A sample shore dive (one I have done on a computer) -45 minute duration max depth 18m. Surface swim to buoy at A, descend to 5m, swim to 18m following the slope down to point B, run parallel to the shore at 18m to point C, ascend to 5 following the slope to D and return to A swimming at 5m. Doing this on tables would put you in group S on PADI tables as you would have to take the dive duration of 45 minutes at 18m.
Now that would be very conservative especially when you consider that a computer will have you with a huge amount of time left before any deco because it will give credit for the offgassing that will be done (the whole of the last leg is effectively a safety stop).
The other thing that a computer will give is the ability to vary a dive based on what is happening ie you decide to follow a seal/dolphin/fish deeper and the computer will vary it in real time instead of having to throw the entire plan out of the window. Unless you are very good or have tables with you you can't replan a dive on the hoof underwater
For shore diving tables are way too conservative. For square profile dives though they are great.
A sample shore dive (one I have done on a computer) -45 minute duration max depth 18m. Surface swim to buoy at A, descend to 5m, swim to 18m following the slope down to point B, run parallel to the shore at 18m to point C, ascend to 5 following the slope to D and return to A swimming at 5m. Doing this on tables would put you in group S on PADI tables as you would have to take the dive duration of 45 minutes at 18m.
Now that would be very conservative especially when you consider that a computer will have you with a huge amount of time left before any deco because it will give credit for the offgassing that will be done (the whole of the last leg is effectively a safety stop).
The other thing that a computer will give is the ability to vary a dive based on what is happening ie you decide to follow a seal/dolphin/fish deeper and the computer will vary it in real time instead of having to throw the entire plan out of the window. Unless you are very good or have tables with you you can't replan a dive on the hoof underwater
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