AquaSafari

[Aqua Safari]

Thank you Sr. Knight,
Actually it's not your first post that seems to me as informative as your last night's post.
Actually, a combination of both would be great.

Sr. Knight, what I want is to see that your post on this forum become the cause of a harbormaster's general circular to all Cozumel boats, warning them and defining the divebuoy. I can't think of a better resolution to this issue than that, I can't think of a better way to offer satisfaction.

Sinceramente,
Aqua Safari
Bill Horn

 

[teknitroxdiver]

I'll start typing up a complete synopsis.

 

[redacted]

You really are trying hard to downplay the things he could have probably done better. Diving without the proper paperwork in Cozumel...probably not a good idea (however does not contribute to this discussion IMO). Diving without a DM in a high boat traffic area...probably not a good idea. Not realizing after the first two boats passed overhead that he was probably in a risky situation...probably should have realized the risk at this point. Yelling at the third dive boat that passes over his flag...probably the same thing I would have done. Posting the incident in the manner he did in multiple public forums...probably not a good idea. .

I'm not saying there are things that TDN could not have done better as he conducted that popular shore dive. I just don't see how they are relavent to the issue of a dive boat failing to honor a dive flag and causing the diver to take evasive measures close to shore and in fairly shallow water. I still think the issue is what that boat captain was doing and thinking. That does not seem to be coming out in all this BS about where is TND's wrist band and why did he post this on the internet rather than handle it more descretely. It just seems like there should be more to the answer than an eye-drop prescription.

I'm starting to get the impression that there is no requirement for a dive boat to honor a dive marker in Cozumel established either by Cozumel authorities or, in this case, the dive operator involved. As long as you don't hurt anybody, I guess it's anything goes.

 

[Aqua Safari]

awap,
it's not that "there is no requirement for a dive boat to honor a dive marker in Cozumel established either by Cozumel authorities or, in this case, the dive operator involved."
I think it's that it would appear Captains need a reminder and not get overconfident.
I am certain we will post the harbormaster's definition or proceedure regarding divebuoys.....
Teknitroxdiver is typing up a complete synopsis to be given to my Captains, then to dive shop association members, and to the harbormaster. What Tek and I now seek, is a harbormaster's general circular to all Cozumel boats, warning them and defining the divebuoy in our waters.

THEN I should think we can put this to bed; having taken a positive step forward for the safety of all us divers.

 

[redacted]

awap,
it's not that "there is no requirement for a dive boat to honor a dive marker in Cozumel established either by Cozumel authorities or, in this case, the dive operator involved."
I think it's that it would appear Captains need a reminder and not get overconfident.
I am certain we will post the harbormaster's definition or proceedure regarding divebuoys.

Thank you. I'll be looking forward to understanding the requirements in Cozumel.

Are you thinking that this incident is a result of a general lack of compliance with existing requirements by boat captains?

 

[Aqua Safari]

I think men who have driven dive boats for decades need to be reminded that though they may be cracker jack helmsmen, they not get overconfident.
In the abscence of a gruesome accident, a circular from the harbormaster may help avoid, or at least postpone, the next diver getting hit by a boat.

 

[redacted]

I think men who have driven dive boats for decades need to be reminded that though they may be cracker jack helmsmen, they not get overconfident.
In the abscence of a gruesome accident, a circular from the harbormaster may help avoid, or at least postpone, the next diver getting hit by a boat.

I assume you have taken less formal steps to accomplish that with your fleet of boats and captains. I'd hope your encouragement and this thread will have others taking similar steps without waiting for the harbomaster's intervention.

 

[BHB ScubaTroll]

awap,
it's not that "there is no requirement for a dive boat to honor a dive marker in Cozumel established either by Cozumel authorities or, in this case, the dive operator involved."
I think it's that it would appear Captains need a reminder and not get overconfident.
I am certain we will post the harbormaster's definition or proceedure regarding divebuoys.....
Teknitroxdiver is typing up a complete synopsis to be given to my Captains, then to dive shop association members, and to the harbormaster. What Tek and I now seek, is a harbormaster's general circular to all Cozumel boats, warning them and defining the divebuoy in our waters.

THEN I should think we can put this to bed; having taken a positive step forward for the safety of all us divers.

Here is an example of dive flag law in the USA

The size of divers-down flags displayed on vessels has been increased form 12" x 12" to 20" to 24" and requires a stiffener to keep the flag unfurled. (Note: Dive flags carried on floats may still be 12" x 12").


Dive flags on vessels must be displayed so that visibility to the flag is not obstructed.
Vessel operators must make reasonable efforts to maintain a distance of 100 feet from any divers-down flag while on a river, inlet, or navigation channel; divers must make a reasonable effort to stay within 100 feet of the divers-down flag on rivers, inlets, or navigation channels and within 200 feet on all waters other than rivers, inlets, or navigation channels; vessel operators must make a reasonable effort to maintain a distance of 300 feet from vessels displaying dive flags on these waters.


Vessels may approach within 100 feet or 300 feet of a divers-down flag at idle speed.
"Buzzing" a dive flag has been added to the description of reckless operation of a vessel, which is a first degree misdemeanor punishable by a fine up to $1,000 and/or up to 6 months in jail

 

[Gamehunter]

I agree with Bill that this would be a terrific time to address the issue of diver awareness to boat captains. After asking friends and researching I do not think Mexico observes red & white dive flags as a symbol for submerged divers (please correct me if I am wrong), it is only recognized as a U.S. symbol. My 14 year old daughter and her friends recognize it as they are taught boater safety in school. We in the States are required and taught to use a dive flag and I do on my boat along with an Alpha flag. So in taking a flag with you on a shore dive it is very likely that you would encounter boats not observing the US rules. See web page for better understanding: Dive Flag Laws Examined
I also agree that Mexico with all it's tourism from the States for diving should look hard at adopting rules for divers that would parallel with the rules that most divers already know. I commend Bill in bringing this incident to the Harbor Master before someone does get seriously hurt. I do also understand that had Tek hired a DM he would have been made to understand that the dive flag does not hold much meaning in Mexico.

 

[teknitroxdiver]

I agree with Bill that this would be a terrific time to address the issue of diver awareness to boat captains. After asking friends and researching I do not think Mexico observes red & white dive flags as a symbol for submerged divers (please correct me if I am wrong), it is only recognized as a U.S. symbol. My 14 year old daughter and her friends recognize it as they are taught boater safety in school. We in the States are required and taught to use a dive flag and I do on my boat along with an Alpha flag. So in taking a flag with you on a shore dive it is very likely that you would encounter boats not observing the US rules. See web page for better understanding: Dive Flag Laws Examined
I also agree that Mexico with all it's tourism from the States for diving should look hard at adopting rules for divers that would parallel with the rules that most divers already know. I commend Bill in bringing this incident to the Harbor Master before someone does get seriously hurt. I do also understand that had Tek hired a DM he would have been made to understand that the dive flag does not hold much meaning in Mexico.

While the red and white flag may not be the legal standard, it is what you find on all the dive boats and most of the guides' flags. Often a dive boat will fly both the red/white and the alpha flag, but floats are exclusively red/white flags.