AquaSafari

[ggunn]

This needs to be addressed and if found true (good luck with that), I would expect the parties involved to be terminated. I would contact the guests involved to get the "real" story. I doubt you will get the truth out of the folks who may have done this (divemaster / capt.).

I'm looking for a provider during the Mar Spring Break timeframe (I emailed you guys last night) and I am seriously considering going to another provider. We were looking at 21 "dives".

It's just a tiny bit presumptuous, IMO, to try to tell the owner of a business (in another country, no less) on what grounds he should fire one of his employees, and then follow it with a veiled threat to take your business elsewhere unless he does what you dictate. If it were my shop I'd send you on down the road.

 

[DandyDon]

This needs to be addressed and if found true (good luck with that), I would expect the parties involved to be terminated. I would contact the guests involved to get the "real" story. I doubt you will get the truth out of the folks who may have done this (divemaster / capt.).

I'm looking for a provider during the Mar Spring Break timeframe (I emailed you guys last night) and I am seriously considering going to another provider. We were looking at 21 "dives".

Wow?! :11: I'd know you were from the "Show Me State" even if you hadn't included that in your profile.

While I will not say you're wrong on any point, I will suggest that the owner has stated a strong interest in safety first along with customer and public appeasement - and yes, it does boil down to appeasing at times. If you're in a sales business, the customer and public have to be happy, regardless of what right may seem to be.

I sincerely doubt that the skipper ever intended any unsafe action. Hypothetically only, some might think "that honky deserves to get hit" but never act on it. If your boat hits one, it could be 100% the divers fault but you'll still go out of business. Any safety questions here will certainly be handled as possible accidental mistakes if that.

As far as tempers go, even if the one sided story in post one was totally correct (not likely, we each have our views, and each is personal), I'd still understand. Being a skipper or DM to international tourists day after day has got be a very challenging position. Even at best, if I was a skipper who accidentally hit a dive flag that shouldn't have been there, or the DM on the boat, I would be horrified that I might have hit the unseen jaywalker (I have this fear driving thru town at night with out-in-theostreet walkers in black clothes frequently), then when I backed up carefully to see if anyone had been hurt - as soon as I determined they weren't, I would have been obviously and verbally pissed at the jaywalker! From there, anything other than an apology from the jaywalker would certainly escalate things, I'm sure.

There are many good ops on Cozumel, and while a single diver wanting to do 21 dives is not nearly as appealing as couples or groups (I often go alone, too - I understand), I'm sure that many would welcome your business if they can make room for you during their busiest period. Hope you have a great trip, enjoy the diving, food, town and people, and all goes well for you.

 

[cicopo]

Although it still hasn't been clarified there is a very good possibility that this took place (accidently) because the shore divers seemed to be using a dive flag to mark their position & presence which generally speaking is the normal thing to do. HOWEVER in Cozumel that IS NOT the normal way it's done, and since it happened in an area where a licensed (or whatever other term is used) divemaster was supposed to be in charge and would have used the LOCALLY RECOGNIZED method to mark where they were there are logical reasons why it happened. Divemasters use inflatable sausages not flags due to the style of drift diving in Cozumel and normally they are not towed while doing the dive. When it's time for someone to surface the sausage is inflated & allowed to float up to the surface to mark the area to stay clear of while the dive boat has followed the bubble trail.
A dive flag is a good way to mark your presence, but they don't always fly at a right angle to an approaching boat and could have been flying straight towards or away from the boat making it nearly invisible. It's unfortunate that it took place but from the look of things it is high on the list of things that Aqua Safari wants to prevent by fully determining all of the things that caused it to this one time.
I have dove with 10 different dive ops in Cozumel over the years and none of the DM's used a flag, and after spending a lot of time thinking about the use of a flag instead of a sausage I think I might have seen it once, and that was right beside the pier at Hotel Cozumel where a lesson was being held. It seems to me that IF (and I don't know that if) a flag was used instead of a sausage the chances of not seeing it were high.

 

[ggunn]

Hypothetically only, some might think "that honky deserves to get hit" but never act on it.

I think that "gringo" is the pejorative you are looking for. We are "honkies" to a different group of folks.

Once more we seem to find ourselves on the same page. It's starting to get spooky. ;^)

 

[old gaffer]

This needs to be addressed and if found true (good luck with that), I would expect the parties involved to be terminated. I would contact the guests involved to get the "real" story. I doubt you will get the truth out of the folks who may have done this (divemaster / capt.).

I'm looking for a provider during the Mar Spring Break timeframe (I emailed you guys last night) and I am seriously considering going to another provider. We were looking at 21 "dives".

Wow thats harsh! When I went into managing people I struggled with making tough decisions in the fear that my boss would not back me up, I brought this concern to him and what he told me helped me become a very good manager and what he said was this... In my eyes when your right your right, when your wrong your right but when your dead wrong your dead wrong. In other words as my employer he would always give me the grey area as any good manager would and should do for there employee.

Gaffer

 

[kckid]

It's just a tiny bit presumptuous, IMO, to try to tell the owner of a business (in another country, no less) on what grounds he should fire one of his employees, and then follow it with a veiled threat to take your business elsewhere unless he does what you dictate. If it were my shop I'd send you on down the road.

And if this was your shop and that is how you treated others, you wouldn't have to "send me down the road" because I'd be outta there faster than you could blink and you would be out of business.

I'm not saying this is the way this operator runs his business, but I know workers will and do lie about incidents to save their own butts. If what happened is accurate then they need to go, otherwise the reputation of the company is at stake. "IF" it can be proven (through the guests that were there on the companies dive trip), it shows willfull disregard and disrespect for others. I wouldn't want that person working for me...

I'll believe someone that has been on this board since 2003 w/ 2,300 posts first over a "vendor" here. I'm sure he was pretty pissed off with how he was treated, and I don't fault him for "posting it around".

 

[MorganInCozumel]

Hello folks. As this is my first post, let me introduce myself as the flag carrier for the incident being discussed. Teknitroxdiver has outlined everything so far exactly as I would have, so there has been nothing for me to add. I also want to say that after meeting with Mr. Bill Horn, I too am completely satisfied with his commitment to safety and to preventing this from happening again, and would dive with Aqua Safari in the future without hesitation.

Although it still hasn't been clarified there is a very good possibility that this took place (accidently) because the shore divers seemed to be using a dive flag to mark their position & presence which generally speaking is the normal thing to do. HOWEVER in Cozumel that IS NOT the normal way it's done, and since it happened in an area where a licensed (or whatever other term is used) divemaster was supposed to be in charge and would have used the LOCALLY RECOGNIZED method to mark where they were there are logical reasons why it happened. Divemasters use inflatable sausages not flags due to the style of drift diving in Cozumel and normally they are not towed while doing the dive. When it's time for someone to surface the sausage is inflated & allowed to float up to the surface to mark the area to stay clear of while the dive boat has followed the bubble trail.
A dive flag is a good way to mark your presence, but they don't always fly at a right angle to an approaching boat and could have been flying straight towards or away from the boat making it nearly invisible. It's unfortunate that it took place but from the look of things it is high on the list of things that Aqua Safari wants to prevent by fully determining all of the things that caused it to this one time.
I have dove with 10 different dive ops in Cozumel over the years and none of the DM's used a flag, and after spending a lot of time thinking about the use of a flag instead of a sausage I think I might have seen it once, and that was right beside the pier at Hotel Cozumel where a lesson was being held. It seems to me that IF (and I don't know that if) a flag was used instead of a sausage the chances of not seeing it were high.

To address some of cicopo's points...

- My understanding is that a safety sausage is the "normal thing to do" because the usual dive is a drift dive from a boat. The boat has the "diver down" flag on it, and generally sticks pretty close to the divers. As described, the DM deploys his safety sausage as well when it is almost time to surface.

- The "locally recognized method" recommended to us was a dive flag. This recommendation came from a local dive boat captain, a local dive instructor, and the Cozumel Scuba Repair shop (three different highly experienced locals).

- On the same afternoon as our dive, another local DM took someone on a beach dive right after ours. He was using a flag similar to ours.

Those things notwithstanding, we are looking at ways to make ourselves more visible to boats. Cicopo makes a valid point about a flag's potentially limited viewing angle.

 

[ggunn]

And if this was your shop and that is how you treated others, you wouldn't have to "send me down the road" because I'd be outta there faster than you could blink and you would be out of business.

Treated others how? The shop owner has been very forthcoming in meeting with the OP and resolving the issue, if there ever was one to begin with. If that's not good enough for you, well, there are plenty of other ops to choose from.

I'm not saying this is the way this operator runs his business, but I know workers will and do lie about incidents to save their own butts. If what happened is accurate then they need to go, otherwise the reputation of the company is at stake. "IF" it can be proven (through the guests that were there on the companies dive trip), it shows willfull disregard and disrespect for others. I wouldn't want that person working for me...

I'll believe someone that has been on this board since 2003 w/ 2,300 posts first over a "vendor" here. I'm sure he was pretty pissed off with how he was treated, and I don't fault him for "posting it around".

Well, to each his own; I take it all with a grain of salt. You don't know what really happened out there any more than I do. The OP is satisfied after his meeting with the owner of the shop, though, and he's not yelling for the head of the boat captain, so why should you? How were you affected by any of this, anyway, to be demanding that the guy be fired? I certainly would not under any circumstances fire a guy just because you threatened to take your business elsewhere if I didn't. If I thought the guy needed firing, I'd do it, but not on your say so.

What's post count got to do with anything anyway? Look at mine; do you consider me to be an authority? :^)

 

[kckid]

Like I said "if"...

Maybe they worked it out, that's good for them. I re-read the inital post and from boat driver, to the dive master there was a common theme of "screw you" your in our way.

Whether they worked it out at this point or not, after reading the inital post again I'm just disgusted. I'll take my $1500 somewhere else...

 

[ggunn]

Like I said "if"...

Maybe they worked it out, that's good for them. I re-read the inital post and from boat driver, to the dive master there was a common theme of "screw you" your in our way.

Whether they worked it out at this point or not, after reading the inital post again I'm just disgusted. I'll take my $1500 somewhere else...

Yeah, that'll show 'em! ;^)