I see, but there is no way to display it during the dive. It only shows in the dive log after you surface. Unless I am missing something in the manual . . .
Announcing the SubGravity H3 - Powered by SeaBear
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Yes, the SubGravity H3 Dive Computer powered by Seabear is built with a rechargeable lithium battery, which is charged via a USB connection. The connection on the dive computer side is a water proof connection that works extremely well. The other side of the cable has a regular USB connection that you can plug into your laptop or wall wart. We have not experienced any corrosion issues thus far and don't anticipate any provided that the user rinses the computer after use. Charging takes approximately 3 hours to achieve a fully charged unit from zero charge.
Battery life on a single charge is as follows:
1. Diving - approximately 14 hours
2. Standby mode while wearing as a watch - approximately 30 days
3. Standby mode while inactive (sitting on the shelf) - approximately one year
Yes, the computer displays water temperature
Kind regards,
Randy
---------- Post added July 6th, 2015 at 03:53 PM ----------
By the way, as mentioned above, the battery compartment is sealed. There is no need or option for the end user to open the computer to charge the battery. The connection is an external connection and is extremely reliable. Regarding the warranty period, the warranty is 2 years from date of purchase. Stainless steel casing and sapphire crystal both make for a very reliable and robust dive computer.
Battery life on a single charge is as follows:
1. Diving - approximately 14 hours
2. Standby mode while wearing as a watch - approximately 30 days
3. Standby mode while inactive (sitting on the shelf) - approximately one year
Yes, the computer displays water temperature
Kind regards,
Randy
---------- Post added July 6th, 2015 at 03:53 PM ----------
By the way, as mentioned above, the battery compartment is sealed. There is no need or option for the end user to open the computer to charge the battery. The connection is an external connection and is extremely reliable. Regarding the warranty period, the warranty is 2 years from date of purchase. Stainless steel casing and sapphire crystal both make for a very reliable and robust dive computer.
Lithium batteries degrade over time, even if they are not being used. It is pretty normal for a cell phone lithium battery to degrade to 50% of its original capacity after 2 years of normal usage.
What provision is there to replace the battery in the H3? If you can return it to the factory for a new battery, how much does/will that cost?
Also, is SeaBear/SubGravity offering any kind of guarantee IN WRITING to current customers that their existing H3 computers will work with the AI transmitter, when that is released? Or is it possible that they will release an updated (though possibly identical, externally) version of the H3 to work with the AI transmitter, and the current one won't even be able to be upgraded to work with an AI transmitter?
So, you've seen written confirmation that the current H3 has the required RF (or whatever technology they use) receiver already built in?
Also, any word on if VPM support will be available as an upgrade for the H3 and what it will cost?
I'm starting Tech training in a couple of weeks, so I think I'm going to buy a new computer. I am really interested in an H3 - but, really, only if I know (i.e. see written confirmation from the manufacturer) that I would be able to add wireless AI later. Without that, I think I would opt for the tried-and-true Petrel 2. At least I know the Petrel will allow me to use VPM, if I want. And the Petrel is a known entity, with respect to support and customer service - the Gold Standard. The H3, so far, seems to be a complete UNknown as far as how well the manufacturer is going to support it down the road with firmware updates, out-of-warranty repairs, etc..
Not to mention the issue I already asked about, which got no response. Lithium batteries degrade over time and need to be replaced. How will that be handled for an H3 when it gets to be a couple of years old and the battery no longer lasts nearly as long as when it was new? A 2 or 3 year old Petrel will last just as long on a battery as it did when it was new. A 2 or 3 year old H3 that won't last through a full day of diving may as well be a paperweight.
They have confirmed in this thread several times that all AI hardware is in the unit and it will work with whatever transmitter they introduce. Don't really know what else they can say.
If you are really interested, I would also check out the T1. I looked at both and really liked the wheel interface more than the two-button interface. Much faster way to get things done. T-1 also has a bungee mount. The slightly larger form factor was no big deal for me, at all. But, the H3 is the choice if the wristwatch form factor is important to you.
As for the battery, the battery seems good for a large number of hours, and I cannot see it ever "degrading" to where it would not give you one day of diving over any expected life of the computer. Certainly not 2 years, that is absurd. My rechargeable L-ion photo batteries have gone 5 years and more with intense use and I have noticed any lack of capacity. Same with my smartphone over the last four years. I think this concern is theoretical than realistic. Still, it would be interesting to know what a battery replacement would cost if it were needed.
As for support after the sale, it is a new product, so who can know with certainty? From their conduct in this forum, I would expect top-notch service and support after the sale (compare them to the interminable X-Deep BLACK fiasco for example). I also expect the AI will give them a bigger market than the Petrel in the longer term, which is encouraging as to their ability to keep selling the product.
By the way, I like AI and want it on my computer (which is why I have not bought a Petrel). But, you have not started your tech training yet. Many tech divers do not like AI. You might want to take the training, talk to your instructor and other tech divers, and then decide what computer might be best for you. You do not need a high-end computer to take the course, only one with a good gauge mode.
You seem frustrated that a new product that is still evolving (yes, SubGravity does provide updates and takes feedback from divers as to features) does not for now have everything the Petrel offers, but has something else you want (the AI) that the Petrel does not, which puts you in a tough choice. But, we all go through that. Take your time. Also, you should definitely look at both the Petrel and Subgravity (whichever model you prefer) in person, side by side of possible (I am lucky enough to live close to a shop that has both, so I could do that) as they have distinct differences in how they look and how they operate.
If you are really interested, I would also check out the T1. I looked at both and really liked the wheel interface more than the two-button interface. Much faster way to get things done. T-1 also has a bungee mount. The slightly larger form factor was no big deal for me, at all. But, the H3 is the choice if the wristwatch form factor is important to you.
As for the battery, the battery seems good for a large number of hours, and I cannot see it ever "degrading" to where it would not give you one day of diving over any expected life of the computer. Certainly not 2 years, that is absurd. My rechargeable L-ion photo batteries have gone 5 years and more with intense use and I have noticed any lack of capacity. Same with my smartphone over the last four years. I think this concern is theoretical than realistic. Still, it would be interesting to know what a battery replacement would cost if it were needed.
As for support after the sale, it is a new product, so who can know with certainty? From their conduct in this forum, I would expect top-notch service and support after the sale (compare them to the interminable X-Deep BLACK fiasco for example). I also expect the AI will give them a bigger market than the Petrel in the longer term, which is encouraging as to their ability to keep selling the product.
By the way, I like AI and want it on my computer (which is why I have not bought a Petrel). But, you have not started your tech training yet. Many tech divers do not like AI. You might want to take the training, talk to your instructor and other tech divers, and then decide what computer might be best for you. You do not need a high-end computer to take the course, only one with a good gauge mode.
You seem frustrated that a new product that is still evolving (yes, SubGravity does provide updates and takes feedback from divers as to features) does not for now have everything the Petrel offers, but has something else you want (the AI) that the Petrel does not, which puts you in a tough choice. But, we all go through that. Take your time. Also, you should definitely look at both the Petrel and Subgravity (whichever model you prefer) in person, side by side of possible (I am lucky enough to live close to a shop that has both, so I could do that) as they have distinct differences in how they look and how they operate.
Got it. I searched back through the thread and found that. Thanks. Nothing more need be said!
I have an Atom 3 with WAI now. I really like it. Both for seeing an ATR prediction and also because I download all my dives to Subsurface and it lets me viewed detailed and exact RMV info - not just RMV for a whole dive. I like looking at the details to see, for example, a point in my dive where I know I was working hard and I can see that my RMV went to 1.1 there. But then, when I'm just floating along doing nothing, it drops to .5 or whatever.
With an H3, I might not use the WAI for tech diving. But, the form factor, plus having WAI would support me also using it for my recreational diving and getting rid of my Atom setup. So, H3 + WAI for Rec diving and H3 (w/ or w/o AI) for Tech diving. One computer to rule them all.
That (the form factor and dual use) is why I'm not really looking at the T1. If I were going for something bigger/bulkier than the H3, I would just get a Petrel.
As for batteries, I hate to break it to you, but Lithium batteries degrade over time. Period. Whether they are being used or not. It's great when a manufacturer builds their device with enough battery capacity to keep the device still usable even when it's 2 or 3 or 4 years old. But, if that's the case, then that's what the OEM did. Personally, I like to buy stuff that will last me indefinitely, when properly maintained. Thus when I don't buy cell phones (for example) that don't have user replaceable batteries. I don't mind if the H3 battery is not user replaceable. I just want to know that it CAN be replaced (at least by the factory or an authorized tech) should it need to be - and for a reasonable price. Otherwise, I would have to consider it as disposable (after the warranty period). And the H3 is too expensive for ME to consider it to be disposable.
I am not frustrated that it is still evolving. It's pretty new. I would EXPECT it to still be evolving. I'm just asking for some info on its future. If I know that it won't ever have VPM support, I might still consider it. But, if I learn that VPM support is coming, that would make it even easier to choose the H3. Similarly for WAI. I don't NEED it. But, now that I know it's coming, that does make for a point in favor of going with an H3.
As for my Tech instructor, he likes, uses, and recommends the Petrel. And my Atom has Gauge mode, so, as I said earlier, I THINK I am going to buy a new computer. But, I don't have to, and I may hold off for a while. I'm more inclined, now, to go with an H3, but that just means I may hold out to see what the WAI pricing is and if I'll get a better deal by buying a H3+WAI bundle, once they're available.
I think you are right in waiting. If you have access to see an H3, ask to borrow your instructor's Petrel and go compare them side by side. If the H3 has good WAI, it will be a formidable contender for my next computer. If Shearwater ever did AI, it would be back to the maddening choice!
As for the battery, I don't think you should worry about an el-cheapo lithium from Sub-Gravity. Although I know it does not mean anything definitive, the Subgravity reeks of solid construction and quality, as does the Petrel. I do take it for granted that lithium batteries can degrade over time, I just have not seen it in any practical effect over years of using them in my camera and my phone, which go through far, far more charge cycles and hours of use than a dive computer will ever do. (if you did 200 dives a year, and the battery is good for 20 dives, that is only 10 charge cycles each year--my phone gets 3 per week and battery still going strong after 3 years). Just for that reason, I don't think I would be worried about the computer, although, to be fair, we will not know until they have been in use for several more years.
I would also assume with some confidence that Sub-Gravity will stand behind them, so long as they remain the manufacturer and distributor.
If your concern is the "tried and true" versus the "new and promising but not proven over years of use", then the Petrel, is, indeed the gold standard. But, you give up AI and, despite my pleas and fondest hopes, Shearwater has shown no inclination to add AI to their computers, as many in their user base would not like it.
As for the battery, I don't think you should worry about an el-cheapo lithium from Sub-Gravity. Although I know it does not mean anything definitive, the Subgravity reeks of solid construction and quality, as does the Petrel. I do take it for granted that lithium batteries can degrade over time, I just have not seen it in any practical effect over years of using them in my camera and my phone, which go through far, far more charge cycles and hours of use than a dive computer will ever do. (if you did 200 dives a year, and the battery is good for 20 dives, that is only 10 charge cycles each year--my phone gets 3 per week and battery still going strong after 3 years). Just for that reason, I don't think I would be worried about the computer, although, to be fair, we will not know until they have been in use for several more years.
I would also assume with some confidence that Sub-Gravity will stand behind them, so long as they remain the manufacturer and distributor.
If your concern is the "tried and true" versus the "new and promising but not proven over years of use", then the Petrel, is, indeed the gold standard. But, you give up AI and, despite my pleas and fondest hopes, Shearwater has shown no inclination to add AI to their computers, as many in their user base would not like it.
I hear you. Even if Shearwater did AI, the H3 would still be my preference. For a computer for Rec diving, I really like the smaller form factor. And, like I said before, a small wrist computer, with WAI, for Rec diving, that will also be a good computer for Tech diving (even if I use it without AI) would be ideal. I don't really want to take a Petrel-sized computer on every trip for Rec diving. And I also would rather not feel a desire/need to own two expensive computers, if I don't have to. The H3 size makes it seem very much like it could fill both roles, thus saving me spending a bunch of extra money. If I were to take the money a Petrel 2 would cost and add the money I could sell my Atom+AI for, I think I could probably buy the H3 and maybe the AI, too, when it comes out. And MAYBE even have some change left over.
As for the batteries, whether it's Li-Ion or Li-Polymer, my understanding is that they degrade over time, even if you charge it to 70% and then just leave it on a shelf and never charge it again (or only charge it when it gets down to 10% or whatever). The number of charge cycles, the charge level that it gets to (on the low end and high end) and the temperatures it is exposed to, particularly while charging, all do affect the longevity of the capacity. But, it will degrade, even under the most ideal circumstances. I don't think the quality level of the device manufacturer has anything to do with that. It's just the nature of the technology.
Anyway.... as you say, waiting is probably best. I've been doing my homework on deco and my intuition is that I will learn more and be better able to handle contingencies if I do my training just using Multi-Deco on my computer, a wrist slate, and my Atom in gauge mode. As long as my instructor is okay with that, I will probably go that route. Saving me money and getting better training at the same time sounds good to me!
Maybe in the meantime, Shearwater will come out with a smaller computer that supports WAI...
---------- Post added July 22nd, 2015 at 04:49 PM ----------
I noticed in the H3 manual says that it comes ready for Nitrox, but it says that Multi-gas and Trimix are features that have to be unlocked.
How much do those things cost? I thought the H3 was pretty comparable in price to a Petrel 2, but now I'm wondering if it's actually a fair bit more expensive, once you actually want to use it for deco and especially Trimix.
As for the batteries, whether it's Li-Ion or Li-Polymer, my understanding is that they degrade over time, even if you charge it to 70% and then just leave it on a shelf and never charge it again (or only charge it when it gets down to 10% or whatever). The number of charge cycles, the charge level that it gets to (on the low end and high end) and the temperatures it is exposed to, particularly while charging, all do affect the longevity of the capacity. But, it will degrade, even under the most ideal circumstances. I don't think the quality level of the device manufacturer has anything to do with that. It's just the nature of the technology.
Anyway.... as you say, waiting is probably best. I've been doing my homework on deco and my intuition is that I will learn more and be better able to handle contingencies if I do my training just using Multi-Deco on my computer, a wrist slate, and my Atom in gauge mode. As long as my instructor is okay with that, I will probably go that route. Saving me money and getting better training at the same time sounds good to me!
Maybe in the meantime, Shearwater will come out with a smaller computer that supports WAI...---------- Post added July 22nd, 2015 at 04:49 PM ----------
I noticed in the H3 manual says that it comes ready for Nitrox, but it says that Multi-gas and Trimix are features that have to be unlocked.
How much do those things cost? I thought the H3 was pretty comparable in price to a Petrel 2, but now I'm wondering if it's actually a fair bit more expensive, once you actually want to use it for deco and especially Trimix.
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I have replaced my phone battery a couple of weeks ago for the 2nd time. My phone was smart when it was new (so higher drain than a dumbphone) and it's old. Like a decade or thereabouts. So it comes with a somewhat lower-capacity battery than the current ones. But let's use it as a reference and say battery lasts 5 years. So the question is whether you keep your DC for 5 years. I think at this point it's a perfectly reasonable expectation and factoring in the cost of battery replacement is a reasonable thing to do. (Edit: see the just resurrected "lifecycle of a DC" thread.)
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