And another sale gone, another one down... another one bites the dust!
- Thread starter Genesis
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metridium once bubbled...
"Remember: don't get your regs serviced here!"
LOL
I won't be doing so much longer.
I'll be getting certified to be a tech on the regs I use a few weeks from now (all 5 are from the same manufacturur).
Then all I'll need is the anual service 'kits' and I'll do my own maintanence (well, except flow bench stuff, etc). The LDS owner said he could sell them to me only after I get the cert (he's gotta cover his own behind if I screw up and I don't have any arguement with that...).
I suppose I COULD order them from overseas, but like I said earlier, I don't like doing that unless ther's no other way to get what I want.
My dear sir,
You may be accustomed to twisting words with others, but twisting mine will get you nowhere. I said the thief was a thief when he took my knowledge and used it to buy online. I did not say that a decision to not buy was a problem. There is a clear difference and your contention that they are in any way comparable is preposterous. If you have no moral reluctance to pumping a service oriented retailer for information to use for selecting a product from the internet then you are correct - I do not want you as a "customer" - and you don't want me as your retailer.
As for your characterization of me, an ad hominem fallacy is an ad hominem fallacy no matter how it is presented - and has nothing to do with the subject.
Now, if you care to dispute my point and not some other, have at it, but your objections in the above post are to something I did not say.
E. itajara
Without a doubt, this is one of the nicest summaries of this problem that I've seen.
I'm constantly amazed at the gall some people display when it comes to begging for free advice. Doing it from your dive pro when you know that you don't intend to buy from him/her is on the same level as the people who think that they can buttonhole me at parties, pour out their problems and ask me to solve them. Some actually get offended when I suggest that they make an appointment during normal office hours.
They are not only comparable, they are identical.
I cannot make a purchase decision in your (or anyone else's!) store until I have all the facts that go into my value computation.
Go back to the post that began this thread.
I came into the store fully prepared to buy, IF the value proposition was met.
You can blow the value proposition up at any point until you ring up the product and run my plastic to complete the sale. You can also make the value proposition at any point up until I walk out the door and head to my computer to place my order on the Internet.
The requirement to do so as a salesman is ENTIRELY YOURS, since YOU are the seller. It is your job, as a salesman, to convince me that the VALUE you offer me exceeds that of the VALUE that someone else is offering me for a similar or identical product!
If you do that, then you make the sale.
If you do not do that, then you do not make the sale.
I used to employ a number of salespeople. Every one who was successful (and a couple got bigger paychecks than I, as the CEO, did on a regular basis!) understood that the entirety of their job was to convince those people who they were trying to sell to that they were purchasing more value with their dollars than they would be if they bought from one of our over 100 competitors in that same market. Every one of the salespeople who starved and eventually quit in disgust due to their own failure to put their daily bread on the table failed to understand and practice the most fundamental point of selling any good or service - its not about price, its about value received for dollars spent.
The funny thing was that the most successful salespeople were those who knew the product and service best, spent the MOST time with each customer, gave out the MOST information, and provided them with enough information to judge the VALUE of the transaction - and they were rewarded (handsomely at that) for doing so.
In the SPECIFIC case under discussion, the LDS has (thus far) failed to make the VALUE equation balance. In a few days I will likely order this product somewhere. The only question is where.
Am I thief for pumping the local shop owner for his price and asking about the unit, and then buying online? No. Not when I've told him what I can buy elsewhere for, and given him every opportunity to make that value equation tip towards his shop. Indeed, even if I don't tell him what I can buy elsewhere for, he still has not been robbed, since I am under no obligation to tell him what I can buy it elsewhere for, just as he is under no obligation to tell me what he paid for it!
Neither piece of information is something that the other party is entitled to. I'm going beyond the call to give him that information. Is he about to tell me what his cost is? Bawhaah!
I cannot steal from you in this instance, since you have every opportunity to make that sale. You CHOOSE not to balance the value equation. You can, but have decided, for whatever reason, not to. Even in the face of an "agreement" to fix prices, you can still make the equation balance! You just have to find someone else, that is not price controlled, that I both want and that you are willing to include in the deal. Do that and the deal is done and you make your sale.
If my "best price" elsewhere is truly below your COST, then you have an entirely different problem and its not one that any buyer can either know or fix. I can't "steal" without intent, and since you aren't about to tell me, before I come in the store, what your COST is I have no way to know that I'm wasting your time UNTIL you let me walk out the door.
Whether you just decide that you think I'm a jerk, I can buy under your cost, or whether you simply think that you can sell the same product for more, and don't see the value in the added profit is not relavent. In some cases, such as where product is hard to get and is on allocation, such a decision is objectively correct, since 10 minutes after you give me a deal that results in less profit someone else may come in and offer you full list price.
But that's not the case with the item under discussion. They are readily available; there is no shortage. Likewise for an item not normally carried but easily orderable.
The bottom line is that YOU choose where you set the value.vs.dollar equation in your shop.
I choose whether the place you set that equation is acceptable to me, and either buy or not, as I in my sole judgement of how I perceive that value, deem appropriate.
This is the fundamental nature of sales. If you don't understand it and instead pratter on about "stealing information" from you, then your life as a salesman is likely to be VERY unrewarding.
The idea that I can "steal" from you by coming into your shop in such a situation is preposterous. If you're unhappy with my buying online, then find a way to make the value equation balance so that I have a reason to buy locally instead.
You DO have that ability.
It IS your choice.
bwerb
Hoser/English Translator, eh
I'm a manufacturer's agent (sales rep) in the houseware/hardware industry. I sell to everyone from the Costco and Home Depot's of the world to the two step wholesale distributors to the small independent retail shops (much like the LDS in terms of business models). What we have seen happening is that small and midsize retailers are banding together to form "buying groups" of associated members. They then approach the manufacturer's as a group and state that their total business is worth X dollars per year and that if they agree to all bring their business to the company they expect certain discounts and terms to apply to all of them. It has been very effective in allowing a more level playing field because unfortunately like it or not, most large companies are controlled by shareholders who want to see big numbers. It's all about volume not fairness or helping out the little guy.
I don't know if the dive industry has any similar arrangements but it might make some sense to be able to take advantage of the terms and discounts offered based on total purchases.
Just a thought.
(Great topic by the way, flame wars aside...)
stick a sock in it genesis..its starting to get a bit thin. you said that you used to employ some.salemen..well i hope that they learned not to be like you..tellme something when you get pennies in change do you sit there and count them before you leave the store or as they are giving you the pennies..dive shops dont owe you ANYTHING..there are many decent customers out there who will easily fill the void left by you..
No problem. It's the "good faith" that makes the difference. But that said, one who operates on good faith places value on a salesman's time, and uses that in their good faith calculations of where to buy. The "bottom line" buyer who will always settle on the lowest price will find himself eventually settling for the least help and information as well. And while there are exceptions, in general you'll get what you pay for in the long run.
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However, there are too many Genesises out there to support the LDS model of today, and I do see the future of Scuba equipment sales eventually falling to the stock-boy outfits and the ultimate demise of the local dive shop - one need only look at the personal computer industry to see the trend. What will likely rise from the ashes is the Scuba School that sells classes, travel and air, and rents equipment.
E. itajara
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