Blah,,,
No thanks, too bad of a hangover!
And another sale gone, another one down... another one bites the dust!
- Thread starter Genesis
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Blah,,,
No thanks, too bad of a hangover!
Maybe some of the legal experts here can speak to this...
I know of some cases where outfits like LP get merchandise by making huge offers to dealers. Some dealer agreements forbid sales to a non-dealer retailer. I forget the technical term but I have been told by a lawyer who specializes in corp. law that enticing one to break a contract is grounds for a suit.
I know of some cases where outfits like LP get merchandise by making huge offers to dealers. Some dealer agreements forbid sales to a non-dealer retailer. I forget the technical term but I have been told by a lawyer who specializes in corp. law that enticing one to break a contract is grounds for a suit.
metridium once bubbled...
Wait a sec, I thought you were arguing that price minimums were a good thing because they prevent price wars?
No, I'm not arguing for price minimums. I'm all for an open market. Personally I feel that price minimums will never work when everyone does not adhere to them. I am also on the fence whether or not there is a legality issue or not.
I get frustrated when everyone starts talking about the "evil dive store owners". That they are "all out to screw us". Most of these guys that I have talked to lately are just trying to pay the rent. Let's face it, for the most part active divers make up an extremely small part of the population. This is what makes volume buying less of a viable option unless you are someplace like LP. It is extremely easy to offer "rock bottom" prices when you are operating with the low overhead of one small location and you have the whole world as target customers. Not even getting into the fact that you can carry what ever brand you want when you are buying your inventory through the back door.
Comparing local dive shops to Wal Mart is absurd. How many towns have you seen have four, five, or six Wal Mart's operating independantly. Also, let's keep it real. Wal Mart has goods that people NEED to get through everyday life. Dive shops have goods that people WANT.
The name of the tort is either:
Intentional Interference with Advantageous Relationships
Intentional Interference with Business Relationships
Intentional Interference with Business Expectancies
They all mean pretty much the same thing. However, different states use different names.
There would be an issue of standing if one LDS were to sue another LDS or LP for intentional interference (not insurmountable, but potentially expensive proving that the LDS was legally entitled to sue). However, a manufacturer would probably have standing.
Some states have business practices acts, which prohibit "unfair and deceptive acts and practices," or something similar. Acts that constitute intentional interference may also violate the business practices acts, although the violation usually has to be pretty egregious. The bonus here is that most of these statutes provide for up to treble damages and attorneys fees. However, like I said, you really need to cross the line to get those.
The usual disclaimer. This is not legal advice. Check with your own attorney.
I think you are right. Things will go on the same way until someone actually does something about it.
It will probally take the manufacturers filing suit to make it happen. I doubt that many LDS's have the time and resources to go through a lengthy court battle. But the manufacturers are still getting their yearly "bookings", so I am sure they do not see the benefit to laying out that kind of cash.
yknot
Guest
I remember reading another thread by DiverBouy alluding to some occasional sweetheart deals from ScubaPro for "dive professionals". ScubaPro would offer stuff at a good discount and dive pros could do what they wanted with it, like resell to their dive buddies, no questions asked. Why is this any different if the intermediate buyer is LeisurePro? Companies like ScubaPro are the winners in all of this anyway. When we buy from LP, ScubaPro still sold a product (which someone in the chain paid at least wholesale for) and they get to duck all warranty responsibilities.
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Isn't that what this thread is about ...... price? Low prices are not important to people? Your crafted statement hardly disguises most customers need to shop for the lowest price. You yourself seem to have no desire at trying to build a relationship with the LDS in question on anything but the lowest price. The LDS must sell to you right? I agree, that's your perogative, but in the end your basing the value you perceive on primarily cost, just like the rest of us in the free world economy. To paraphrase, it's the price .... stupid! :bonk:
Many of us have taken a different tack and choose to work with some LDS in suggesting ways to make our relationship such that both sides perceive value. It can work, i do it with several shops in our area and buy from the net from time to time. Your ego can take it Genesis, try it, you might be surprised at how it turns out.
Actually it is very different. The "instructor deals" I have seen in the past limit the gear that is being bought. This is extremely different than selling $300,000 of gear to LeisurePro.
Go back and read the original post again if you must.
Its about value received for the price paid.
Here are some things the LDS could do that would make that equation work:
1. During the warranty for "X" (e.g. the transmitter in question) we will instantly swap a failed unit for a replacement, and we will keep one in stock just in case such happens (no return to manufacturer necessary)
2. Here, have an air (nitrox) card to go with that transmitter (thereby adding value, but adding far less cost to them than the "face value" of the card)
3. "Your first two overhauls on that regulator are free - yeah, the manufacturer throws in the parts, but we'll eat the labor. And your overhauls will be put in front of our service queue."
I can come up with a bunch more, but those just popped into my head immediately as things the shop could do to tilt the value scales in their favor.
(2) is particularly difficult for the mail order folks to emulate (1) and (3) can be emulated (overnight shipping makes it possible for (1) anyway), but its nowhere near as effective.
Its overly simplistic to say that its just a matter of "price". The truth is that its never just about price. Its about value received for the price paid, and if the customer receives only the original product, and no additional value, then why are they paying the premium price? Just to be "nice" to the retailer? Why would you do that?
Its about value received for the price paid.
Here are some things the LDS could do that would make that equation work:
1. During the warranty for "X" (e.g. the transmitter in question) we will instantly swap a failed unit for a replacement, and we will keep one in stock just in case such happens (no return to manufacturer necessary)
2. Here, have an air (nitrox) card to go with that transmitter (thereby adding value, but adding far less cost to them than the "face value" of the card)
3. "Your first two overhauls on that regulator are free - yeah, the manufacturer throws in the parts, but we'll eat the labor. And your overhauls will be put in front of our service queue."
I can come up with a bunch more, but those just popped into my head immediately as things the shop could do to tilt the value scales in their favor.
(2) is particularly difficult for the mail order folks to emulate
(1) and (3) can be emulated (overnight shipping makes it possible for (1) anyway), but its nowhere near as effective.Its overly simplistic to say that its just a matter of "price". The truth is that its never just about price. Its about value received for the price paid, and if the customer receives only the original product, and no additional value, then why are they paying the premium price? Just to be "nice" to the retailer? Why would you do that?
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