I'm sorry, sir. I cannot help you. Perhaps the shop down the road has what you want.
E. itajara
And another sale gone, another one down... another one bites the dust!
- Thread starter Genesis
- Start date
Please register or login
Welcome to ScubaBoard, the world's largest scuba diving community. Registration is not required to read the forums, but we encourage you to join. Joining has its benefits and enables you to participate in the discussions.
Benefits of registering include
- Ability to post and comment on topics and discussions.
- A Free photo gallery to share your dive photos with the world.
- You can make this box go away
E. itajara
as I stated, the most successful salesman that I ever employed was a true superstar.
And he saw things almost exactly as I do in these matters.
The funny thing was that while he would see 1/4 to 1/2 of the customers that others doing the same job would see, he'd close a FAR higher percentage of those sales.
He came to me with creative deals all the time - stuff that wasn't in our "standard boilerplate." All in an attempt to make the value equation work for one customer or another. Often it would involve bundling something that I would have never thought of as a reasonable combination of services and products that we sold, but nevertheless it was one that he wanted to sell a particular customer, and needed dispensation from "the boss" to do the deal. Typically he would take something that the customer wanted that was high-margin and put it together with something that we just didn't have wiggle room on, and find a combination that made sense and would get the deal done.
He got that approval more often than not.
Why? Because I KNEW, from his history, that if I signed off on the deal he was crafting that it was essentially done, closed, and we had a new customer signing on the dotted line within hours. This guy moved an unbelieveable amount of product and service annually - single-handed. He got a hell of a commission check every two weeks too.
He knew what the LDSs screaming about "theft" of their brain haven't figured out and have refused to learn.
The bottom line for a customer is almost never simply about price, at least not nearly as cut-and-dried as the LDS apologists here are making it sound.
It is about, as I've said, value for dollars spent.
Sink that through your thick skull and you can be a very successful salesman.
The LDS has it easy, really. They have a number of low-marginal-cost items in their shop that divers want. Gas being the most obvious of them, but hardly the only one, especially for air or Nitrox.
And he saw things almost exactly as I do in these matters.
The funny thing was that while he would see 1/4 to 1/2 of the customers that others doing the same job would see, he'd close a FAR higher percentage of those sales.
He came to me with creative deals all the time - stuff that wasn't in our "standard boilerplate." All in an attempt to make the value equation work for one customer or another. Often it would involve bundling something that I would have never thought of as a reasonable combination of services and products that we sold, but nevertheless it was one that he wanted to sell a particular customer, and needed dispensation from "the boss" to do the deal. Typically he would take something that the customer wanted that was high-margin and put it together with something that we just didn't have wiggle room on, and find a combination that made sense and would get the deal done.
He got that approval more often than not.
Why? Because I KNEW, from his history, that if I signed off on the deal he was crafting that it was essentially done, closed, and we had a new customer signing on the dotted line within hours. This guy moved an unbelieveable amount of product and service annually - single-handed. He got a hell of a commission check every two weeks too.
He knew what the LDSs screaming about "theft" of their brain haven't figured out and have refused to learn.
The bottom line for a customer is almost never simply about price, at least not nearly as cut-and-dried as the LDS apologists here are making it sound.
It is about, as I've said, value for dollars spent.
Sink that through your thick skull and you can be a very successful salesman.
The LDS has it easy, really. They have a number of low-marginal-cost items in their shop that divers want. Gas being the most obvious of them, but hardly the only one, especially for air or Nitrox.
Really?
One of my best business associates would love to debate that point with you.
See, he runs one of those "no-name" clone shops. A little hole in the wall in a suburb just outside of Chicago.
DELL, Compaq, Gateway and HP can't hold a candle to this guy. He not only can turn around a machine in an hour and have it waiting for you, configured EXACTLY as you want, priced competitively, but the quality of the components he selects, buys, puts in the box and supports are VASTLY superior to the "commodity" box makers.
I did six figures (left of the decimal, natch) a year worth of business with this guy for several years - my entire data center will FULL of his machines for over three years, and we turned them over on average (just due to performance increases) about every 15 months.
People used to ask me why I didn't just get Compaq, IBM, HP, DELL or Gateway machines - or, for that matter, why I didn't just pick up Computer Shopper and buy the parts.
It was simple:
Dealing with him was a no-bull****, no-games, no-nonsense proposition. No pretense, no problem. You want it, you got it. The price is competitive, the service incomparable. Have a failure and his response was "here - have another one of whatever broke" - no hassles, no problems, just gimme the broken one back - they're not supposed to do that.
He'll never be a billionaire, and I bet he can't get bigger than a certain size without losing what makes him great. Funny thing is that every one of my associates that I've told about him has been ecstatically happy with his equipment and service as well, and he sells into some pretty decent-sized corporate accounts these days..... hell, I still buy from him myself for my own PC needs. The computer that runs my home is one of his - its probably five years old now, has a Pentium Pro 200 processor in it, and other than one power supply that failed it has NEVER had a single problem. That same machine once supported close to 1200 users as a file server with over 60GB of RAID-5 backed storage on it!
It all comes down to value.
You can pick his brain all day long, and he won't accuse you of stealing if you turn around and buy out of the back of Computer Shopper instead of from him. The truth is that you might beat him by $20 on your system price - but you'll get cheap crap compared to what you get when you buy from this guy, and he knows it.
Funny you bring up the PC marketplace...... funny that indeed...
If the LDS market ends up like this, no diver will EVER have a reason to complain. In every reasonably-sized city there will be a guy just like him.... and he'll be the guy to get your gear from, bar none.
(Anyone who wants to know who he is, 'cause they'd like to buy a computer - let me know. More than happy to tell you who to call - he'll take good care of you and ship damn near anywhere.)
That's kinda what I thought you'd say, and I generally agree with it. It seems like the ethical thing to do, while still being a responsible consumer.
Back when I shopped around my first OW gear, I spent some time in each of the likelier shops asking questions, trying to sound them out. I wanted to be confident they were both competent and on the level, but I was shocked and dismayed by how many failed to make the cut.
I narrowed it down to two shops that met all my criteria, including having the best prices I'd found. I chose the one who'd spent the most time working with me, even though they were a hundred miles further away.
Guess I was one of the exceptions you mentioned. I just wish I'd been able to keep up that relationship, but they changed dealerships....ergo, no reg service.
If the truth be told much of what recreational divers think they want is useless junk. I talk divers out of buying far more than I talk them into. Not a very good way to make money but it helps make divers.
I doubt it. My point is that only one in twenty survived the big shake-out of '98. Not much to debate about that. I was one of those survivors, like your friend, and from the sound of it for pretty much the same reasons. I sold/gave the shop to my employees recently - they're continuing to do quite well.
I expect one in twenty LDS's may survive too. But I also believe that the nature of their business will change dramatically - with a major shift away from retail sales and toward selling instruction, air, travel, and renting equipment.
Arguing about that today is pointless. Hide & watch & see where the industry is in ten years.
E. itajara
I hope your right. I would rather give away equipment for cost than give away my time in the water.
Scuba
Contributor
When someone walks in and "takes advantage" of something you offer for free, it simply isn't theft, or unethical, or immoral. i can see how different people have different values and may judge this so. But for me in this case it isn't. It is just what you offer in order to entice customers into your shop so that you have the opportunity to make a sale. Thats why big bucks are spent in advertising and offering cheap, no profit, lead in items.
If I where to tell you I intend to buy to entice you to help me when I know this is not true, then I would consider this unethical. But if you ask me I will tell you the truth, whatever that may be at the time, and I will not get upset if your refuse to help, but now you have lost whatever opportunity you had to sell me. As long as I'm there you have a chance to change my mind.
Every customer you gain is a customer you deny your competition, and thus weakens him.
Every customer you loose or fail to gain goes to your competition, and if they catch him, they grow stronger then you.
I realize there are margins to keep in order to stay afloat, and a business model to be followed. Its a complex issue where sometimes you have to choose one customer over another. But what I sense here, in my opinion, is a lack of effort in dealing with difficult customers, and falling for that old trap of letting business become personal.
Genesis, interesting to see your description of a superstar salesmen, an ethical one I might ad, from what you wrote. I agree. A true salesmen may appear to work for someone, but in fact he operates more like an independent middleman, who seeks to make a transaction valuable for everyone involved. Hopefully the most attractive overall offer according to their needs - in order to make the deal. He has to sell everyone involved.
If I where to tell you I intend to buy to entice you to help me when I know this is not true, then I would consider this unethical. But if you ask me I will tell you the truth, whatever that may be at the time, and I will not get upset if your refuse to help, but now you have lost whatever opportunity you had to sell me. As long as I'm there you have a chance to change my mind.
Every customer you gain is a customer you deny your competition, and thus weakens him.
Every customer you loose or fail to gain goes to your competition, and if they catch him, they grow stronger then you.
I realize there are margins to keep in order to stay afloat, and a business model to be followed. Its a complex issue where sometimes you have to choose one customer over another. But what I sense here, in my opinion, is a lack of effort in dealing with difficult customers, and falling for that old trap of letting business become personal.
Genesis, interesting to see your description of a superstar salesmen, an ethical one I might ad, from what you wrote. I agree. A true salesmen may appear to work for someone, but in fact he operates more like an independent middleman, who seeks to make a transaction valuable for everyone involved. Hopefully the most attractive overall offer according to their needs - in order to make the deal. He has to sell everyone involved.
norcaldiver
Guest
That's what I'm saying, I think it is the Manufacturers, not the LDSs
Oh, I know they do. If you're going out of biz, you just want your money back, who cares what the Manuf. says/thinks.....you're going OUT OF BIZ.
I know they could fend of an attack, and have, if I've heard right. Maybe the Anit Microsoft guys need to be called in? I dunno, just thinking out loud, really. I just hate seeing LDSs getting dumped on because the manuf makes the rules.
Similar threads
