And another sale gone, another one down... another one bites the dust!

[MikeFerrara]

yknot once bubbled...
Norcaldiver- at what point will folks start thinking of the manufacturers as guilty parties in all of this? In addition to Leisure Pro, look at some of the other internet resellers on ebay. Can that volume of gear be coming only thru back channels? Don't you think a LDS could hold a going out of business sale and at leat sell their stock for cost? With my very limited legal knowledge, I would bet that since no single customer has suffered sufficient financial harm due to price fixing that no lawyer has been willing to sue a scuba equip. manufacturer (at leasts on a contingency basis). How big is a company such as ScubaPro? Could they fight a class action suit? I bet if some of the same strong arm tactics were applied to them as to their dealers they would change their ways real fast.

Some of us do blame the manufacturers but they don't care.

 

[MikeFerrara]

norcaldiver once bubbled...
Here's my thing....

This was taken from the LP site.

• Leisure Pro buyers travel worldwide to acquire the finest products at the lowest prices possible. Since, on some of the items we do not buy directly from the manufacturer, we are not bound by official/unofficial manufacturer's suggested retail price and can pass on the tremendous savings to you, our valued customer.

Umm, where do they get their stuff from then, a shaddy store manager? Off the back of a truck that was stolen? From stores that are closing and don't care about the dealership anymore? Shaddy subcontractors of the protected line (as was the case of their suit a while back, i think)

They carry a buttload of stuff that is "protected". So why are they still in biz, and why can't the manufacturers stop the appearant high flow of their products going out the LP door?

Another thing is, if this price fixing is so illegal, why has it been allowed to continue? There are enough lawyers that dive, I'd think someone would have jumped all over this already...

I know where they get some of it but not all. Dealers have lost dealership by selling to them. I have had online stores ( not LP)make me offers. They are in business because there is always someone desperate enough to sell to them. Like the guy who spends the $18,000 it takes to get a SP dealership then can't sell the stuff and is happy to get some of his money back.

 

[Dr. Jay]

Just some info in regards to the E-bay gear deal.
2 sellers off E-bay are linked to Leisurepro.

scubabargain
scuba-equipments

I'm not 100% sure, cuz it's been a while since I sent them a question. But if I recall correctly both replies came from someone with an "@leisurepro.com" address.

Don't know if anyone has had similar experience.

 

[Cave Diver]

The thing that I find the most amazing....






That this thread is still going on!

 

[dc4bs]

Genesis once bubbled...
Really?

Exactly what is that person "stealing"? How can you "steal" something that another gives freely?

Oh, you mean that you only give it to people who will BUY? What if they decide not to for some reason? What if they don't like you? Your product? Your store? Your attitude? Do you post this policy conspicuously at the door to your store - "don't even come in this door unless your wallet is in hand, and you WILL buy something, because as soon as you ask the first question you are OBLIGATED to purchase!"

Hmm...

Sounds like almost every lawyer I've ever heard of...

You walk in the door and the second he gives you even one short sentence of advice you OWE him a fee. Possibly for 1 HOUR of his time even if you only spoke with him for a few minutes.

Or a consulting doctor... If you end up in the hospital and they call in a specialist for a 2 minute consult/2nd opinion, your bill will show his name and the extra fee added for his time could run to the hundreds of dollars.

Knowledge has VALUE.

For some reason, possibly just because it's considered a "hobby", people seem to forget that the second they walk into an LDS.

While it may, in fact, be 'just a hobby', that LDS owners/employees advice JUST MIGHT MEAN THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN LIFE AND DEATH for you or a loved one someday in no less certain manner than that consulting doctor.

I suppose dive shops COULD lower their equipment prices a bit by defrayng the cost through charging for advice but I don't think they would be popular at all...

Personaly, I buy almost all my gear from an LDS that happens to be over an hour away rather than the one just a few blocks from me because I know everyone there and trust the quality of the merchandise, service and advice. I know I could save some cash by shoping on the net but I don't.

The few times I have been to the LDS a few blocks away from me, they treated me well but I just don't have that kind of releationship with them. I'll buy small items from them if I don't have the time to get to the shop I usualy go to or if my usual shop is sold out of something I need or just doesn't carry that item but that's about all. It has nothing to do with how good or bad the close shop is.

--------------------------
Move along folks! Nothing to see here!

 

[metridium]

dc4bs wrote...
Knowledge has VALUE.

For some reason, possibly just because it's considered a "hobby", people seem to forget that the second they walk into an LDS.

So we should pay a salesman to recommend whatever junk he has a vested interest in to sell?

Uh, no.

A neutral, disinterested, third party?

Maybe...

...if I somehow lose net access, that is.

dc4bs wrote...
While it may, in fact, be 'just a hobby', that LDS owners/employees advice JUST MIGHT MEAN THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN LIFE AND DEATH for you or a loved one someday in no less certain manner than that consulting doctor.

That's a bit melodramatic, don't you think?

 

[redacted]

MikeFerrara once bubbled...


I know where they get some of it but not all. Dealers have lost dealership by selling to them. I have had online stores ( not LP)make me offers. They are in business because there is always someone desperate enough to sell to them. Like the guy who spends the $18,000 it takes to get a SP dealership then can't sell the stuff and is happy to get some of his money back.

LDS just picked up the Scubapro line. They lost their only shop in this area four years ago so they were eager to get back in. His buy-in was substanially less than 18K so it looks to me like the local distributer is calling that shot. Shortly after aquiring the dealership, Leisurepro called and offered to buy around one million dollars worth of SP line with 10% of the transaction going to the LDS. (Now was it really LP or was it SP testing a new dealer? Owner thought it was LP.) That's 100K for the owner - not a bad way to close a shop if that were what he wanted - he didn't. Sad thing is he is a fairly small shop so he is paying 30% over base wholesale for his stock. While LP, buying through the back door is only paying 10% over base wholesale. That's why they are able to sell for less than you can buy. Too bad so many of you are so small and independent that you can't take advantage of volume discounts. I believe some of the larger shops in TX have entered into business arrangements that allow them to do just that. If the price fixing ever end, they should be in good position to dominate the retail market.

 

[redacted]

dc4bs once bubbled...



While it may, in fact, be 'just a hobby', that LDS owners/employees advice JUST MIGHT MEAN THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN LIFE AND DEATH for you or a loved one someday in no less certain manner than that consulting doctor.

Or it could be just another line of BS designed to get the uninformed customer to make that purchase. Ever notice how damn near every LDS you go in has just what you need and the explaination of why the next LDS just has junk.

At least it does sound like you found one of the good ones. But I'm having a bit of a hard time imagining just what this life and death advice could have been.

 

[metridium]

awap wrote

At least it does sound like you found one of the good ones. But I'm having a bit of a hard time imagining just what this life and death advice could have been.

"Remember: don't get your regs serviced here!"

 

[dc4bs]

metridium once bubbled...
So we should pay a salesman to recommend whatever junk he has a vested interest in to sell?

Uh, no.

A neutral, disinterested, third party?

Maybe...

...if I somehow lose net access, that is.

That's a bit melodramatic, don't you think?

Absolutely. But bear in mind... This IS a genesis thread so I figured I get into the spirit of things by blowing it all out of porportion...