A need to rehash our discussion on primary donate
- Thread starter tbone1004
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A useful thread.
Like many, I have moved from single, to single and pony, to twin, to twin and stages and then CCR.
So that means I've been through standard AAS, long hose. Long hose with primary donate etc.
I have been diving a CCR for a long time now. Honestly, that means far more dives with OC buddies than CC. The vast majority of buddies are both experienced and diving twinsets, so some form of redundancy. But not all!
I finally switched to a proper BOV, rather than a long hose on a neckless. I have also been unconvinced that if you have a CO2 hit you are going to be able to hold your breath to allow you to switch from the mouthpiece to a bailout reg.
I struggle to remember a dive where I haven't been carrying a stage, due to pure laziness. The stage I normally carry now is an Ali80. It's filled with either Air or Nitrox 27, which covers all recreational diving requirements.
The issue of what you do with an AAS has been a problem since I switched to CCR.
I have finally settled with the AAS being bungied to the stage.
The stage has a long hose on the AAS, and a longish hose on a whip. The whip fits all the manual inflates, drysuit, wing and both O2 and Dil manual injectors.
When I've done OOG exercises, by preference after the receiver gets gas, I clip the whole stage to them. This works for the majority, because they have D rings, (normally wing and backplate). On the odd occasion, I've just given them the full length of long hose.
Currently I can hand off a fully usable redundant gas source. When I've had a second stage clipped to my right D ring, most divers have issues finding it. Over the shoulder counter lungs complicate the issue.
I like the fact that I can had off gas, drop the stage if needed, pass it off to the boat or clip it off to the shot or drop line if needed with no issues.
I would however like to have a 'standard system'. Primary donate is a not an option if you are on CCR. So its either take, or donate.
On the occasions I've provided gas for real, I've always donated. i.e. seen the problem and provided the gas, on occasion, before the effected diver was really aware of what twas happening. On the occasions I've taken gas, I've been well aware of the issue in advance, with one exception, and I still had sufficient gas to close on my buddy, let them know the issue and take their offered regulator, before I reached the point of no gas.
The worst OOG issue in recent years was when I vented the majority of my DIL mask clearing in very poor visibility when I was heavily task loaded. When I checked I only had 10bar of DIL left. So I plugged the off board into the counterlung, which resolved the issue. My buddies where so unnerved by me unexpectedly plugging off-board gas into the loop they opted to abort.
I am going to follow this thread with interest.
Like many, I have moved from single, to single and pony, to twin, to twin and stages and then CCR.
So that means I've been through standard AAS, long hose. Long hose with primary donate etc.
I have been diving a CCR for a long time now. Honestly, that means far more dives with OC buddies than CC. The vast majority of buddies are both experienced and diving twinsets, so some form of redundancy. But not all!
I finally switched to a proper BOV, rather than a long hose on a neckless. I have also been unconvinced that if you have a CO2 hit you are going to be able to hold your breath to allow you to switch from the mouthpiece to a bailout reg.
I struggle to remember a dive where I haven't been carrying a stage, due to pure laziness. The stage I normally carry now is an Ali80. It's filled with either Air or Nitrox 27, which covers all recreational diving requirements.
The issue of what you do with an AAS has been a problem since I switched to CCR.
I have finally settled with the AAS being bungied to the stage.
The stage has a long hose on the AAS, and a longish hose on a whip. The whip fits all the manual inflates, drysuit, wing and both O2 and Dil manual injectors.
When I've done OOG exercises, by preference after the receiver gets gas, I clip the whole stage to them. This works for the majority, because they have D rings, (normally wing and backplate). On the odd occasion, I've just given them the full length of long hose.
Currently I can hand off a fully usable redundant gas source. When I've had a second stage clipped to my right D ring, most divers have issues finding it. Over the shoulder counter lungs complicate the issue.
I like the fact that I can had off gas, drop the stage if needed, pass it off to the boat or clip it off to the shot or drop line if needed with no issues.
I would however like to have a 'standard system'. Primary donate is a not an option if you are on CCR. So its either take, or donate.
On the occasions I've provided gas for real, I've always donated. i.e. seen the problem and provided the gas, on occasion, before the effected diver was really aware of what twas happening. On the occasions I've taken gas, I've been well aware of the issue in advance, with one exception, and I still had sufficient gas to close on my buddy, let them know the issue and take their offered regulator, before I reached the point of no gas.
The worst OOG issue in recent years was when I vented the majority of my DIL mask clearing in very poor visibility when I was heavily task loaded. When I checked I only had 10bar of DIL left. So I plugged the off board into the counterlung, which resolved the issue. My buddies where so unnerved by me unexpectedly plugging off-board gas into the loop they opted to abort.
I am going to follow this thread with interest.
I have a 5ft yellow hose on my bailout. Anyone needs gas, they take that. I get the impression that that is the general solution. If there are no OC divers and no BOV then I have seen that worn round the back of the neck.
I guess your BOV must be from the dil not bailout or handing off the bailout would be a problem. Mine is on the bailout, I have a quick disconnect but I think that would probably flood the BOV so not ideal.
Yes, my BOV is connected to the onboard DIL.
I've ummed and ahhhhed over the question of having it connected to the off board.
Part of the reason for my current setup is most of my diving is within recreational depths - (40m).
I've considered a switching block, and/or quick disconnects.
As things stand, I have a BOV for sanity breaths, then I'll switch to the off board.
It's a lot better as solutions go to my original setup.... no BOV and having to go to a bailout reg (in board or off board).
If I go back to a lot of deep mix diving, I'll rethink the setup.
I think in the years of diving with me they have never seen me have an in water issue with my unit (hardly even an issue - just my own incompetence/complacency). Both of them are OC divers only.
I was more than happy to carry on the bimble, in fairness it was only a quarry dive to wash off kit.
It is easy to forget, that OC buddies are very nervous of CCR's, even if they have been diving with you for a while. The only reason I have a CCR is because I didn't like diving (on OC) with CCR buddies when I didn't understand CCR's. So when I was given the opportunity to attend a pilot CCR course, I took it. Unfortunately, it resulted in me buying my unit!
Jay
Need to dive more!
A slight segway, but hopefully ~on theme ... I haven't yet come across CCR divers on the types of diving I do but I know they've been there in the past. For some ?common? what-if scenarios based on a bit of reading here, I *think* I have a vague idea of how I might assist in the unlikely event I should be the only one nearby, but naturally I would be hesitant of making matters worse. Do you/anyone know if there's a resource available for the OC Rec diver to learn more in this regard? (short of doing a course etc ...)
There are a couple of resources, there was a good one (mostly AP based) that I can't seem to find now.
(Edit: found and attached). There's a useful amount of generic info there for non-AP buddies as well.
This is the PADI one: https://tecrec.files.wordpress.com/2013/01/rebreather-informer-ap.pdf
This SB thread has some helpful info as well: Scuba with RB buddy.
This article is pretty good as well, the pictures don't load for me but the text is helpful: So your buddy has a REBREATHER
As to the OP, on CCR I have my bailout setup like a deco tank and everyone is briefed to go to it for gas. I side mount it, so the reg is pretty clearly visible and also close to the "golden triangle" for those taught that way. I have a bright yellow hose and reg for those who may be looking for that.
I dive the same setup as @The Chairman in side mount, with a pull away bungee for the left hand reg, both on 5 foot hoses which are fine for me in OW situations, once I get to overhead diving I will re-evaluate and probably go to 7-foot if indicated.
Double hose is the weird one for me. I keep a second stage on a 40” clipped to my right d-ring. It’s the only reg I have rigged Brett Hemphill’s weird bungee boltsnap style, but in that situation, it works ok.
Rebreather is just like a set of doubles, with a BOV you store your breath in the unit, swap to o/c, and in one move loop goes up with your left hand, long hose gets donated, loop goes back in your mouth. Back on the loop or staying on the BOV for a minute is situational.
Rebreather is just like a set of doubles, with a BOV you store your breath in the unit, swap to o/c, and in one move loop goes up with your left hand, long hose gets donated, loop goes back in your mouth. Back on the loop or staying on the BOV for a minute is situational.
PfcAJ
Contributor
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