A need to rehash our discussion on primary donate

[The Chairman]

I often run small tanks, especially on an RB. Donating a small tank or an aluminum is pretty easy. I practiced this during my SF2 class extensively.

I've never seen people doing a tandem exit that needed 7ft. My hand is usually on their thigh as we move, even through restrictions.

 

[rjack321]

@rjack321 and @The Chairman so what is the downside to running a pair of 7' hoses? What do you gain by using 5'? I've been running 9' long hose in sidemount for 9 years and it's never been an issue. Granted I use HP120's or LP121's, so long tanks, but still, what is the gain with 5'?

Did you miss my sarcasm font?

In open water I use a 7ft hose on my deepest BO gas.
In caves I use a 7ft hose on my right SM cylinder

 

[tbone1004]

@The Chairman how small? 7' works fine on LP50's since they're actually quite long.
LP50-25.2"
AL80-26"
HP120-28" or 29" depending on brand

25.2" is the total length, so take off about 6" of functional length *3" for the bottom crown, and 3" for good measure", and it's safe to assume that the regulator outlet is roughly at the same spot as the top of the tank, so you have 19" to work with. My short hose is 30" so we'll assume that. Single down, single up, plus the minimum length is 19*2+30=68" Putting a short paperclip on there is not an issue to be able to work with 7' or even 9' hoses

@rjack321 definitely missed it. Work is nuts so my interpreting skills are severely lacking this week and next

 

[dhaines429]

I dive sidemount with short hose on bungee necklace in left and long hose on right. With the popularity of sidemount now I almost feel like different configurations should be discussed in OW so that newer divers have a better understanding for mixed teams.
For me it seems simple that I always have to donate long hose, either directly from my mouth or by unclipping from d-ring. I dive with other experienced divers but if I am going to go out with someone new then a quick rundown of emergency procedures would be in order.

 

[rddvet]

RB80 config has the long hose routed as normal, just under the loop. OOG isn't something that sneaks up on you with the RB80, but even if you need the hose in a hurry its NBD to unclip, take the loop out of your mouth, give the long hose, put the loop back.

This is exactly how I was taught by my instructor(not on an RB80) though he is also an instructor for TDI, IANTD, and GUE. It's not the most perfect solution. In a major emergency that sneaks up on you (like coming across an OC OOA diver in a cave) it's a little fidgety due to the extra step of moving the loop out of the way. The reality is that pretty much never occurs, so why change configuration for that rarity. We also had a long discussion that on CCR OOA emergencies just don't all of a sudden pop up. If they do it's because you've missed many many warning signs and probably shouldn't be diving CCR anyway.

I originally assumed we were going to be taught to have a long hose stowed to the bailout tank like I see so many people do. We also had a long discussion on the negatives to that choice (ie having to find and unstow the reg in a rapid emergency). At the end of it my wife and I preferred the method you described since it fits most closely with how we dive OC and don't see that one extreme rarity of a sudden OOA situation as a reality.

 

[tbone1004]

@dhaines429 any good OW class should bring up primary donate vs. secondary donate. PADI "standard" config is secondary donate, but if you're using an AirII or have an instructor that teaches primary donate, that needs to be brought up in basic OW.
With sidemount you just need to brief your buddy that it may be either or, so just ask for the reg, and with a loop of either variety, it's always secondary donate.

@rddvet so you have sidemounted bailouts or do you have a rack? What CCR are you on? unfortunately I can't properly hog loop with OTS lungs so have to look elsewhere. Thankfully the bungee on the plate works fine and puts the reg in the same spot but you have to pull a bit to unthread it. With sidemounted bottles you can get it up to the right d-ring as well, but not quite as clean, and for me with Jetstreams, I'll be putting the reg on my left shoulder so it is behind my neck in a loop that will make deployment quite rapid. Unfortunately that ability is limited to reversible showerheads and not really compatible with much else

 

[rddvet]

Not on side mount. Let's do a couple of tight restrictions and see. You would be surprised.

I'm with tbone on this one. I've tried it and a 7 foot hose is a much better solution. 5 foot is not comfortable nor just as easy as a 7 footer. I haven't understood the advantage of dropping down to a 5 foot hose when people dive 2.

 

[rddvet]

@dhaines429 any good OW class should bring up primary donate vs. secondary donate. PADI "standard" config is secondary donate, but if you're using an AirII or have an instructor that teaches primary donate, that needs to be brought up in basic OW.
With sidemount you just need to brief your buddy that it may be either or, so just ask for the reg, and with a loop of either variety, it's always secondary donate.

@rddvet so you have sidemounted bailouts or do you have a rack? What CCR are you on? unfortunately I can't properly hog loop with OTS lungs so have to look elsewhere. Thankfully the bungee on the plate works fine and puts the reg in the same spot but you have to pull a bit to unthread it. With sidemounted bottles you can get it up to the right d-ring as well, but not quite as clean, and for me with Jetstreams, I'll be putting the reg on my left shoulder so it is behind my neck in a loop that will make deployment quite rapid. Unfortunately that ability is limited to reversible showerheads and not really compatible with much else

Fathom with sidemounted bailout. I could definitely see in your situation with OTS' that the way I do it would be very cumbersome.

 

[divad]

My hand is usually on their thigh as we move, even through restrictions.

That's just gross.

 

[Rooster59]

I’m assuming a couple things if it’s vacation diving. The more a random diver doesn’t pay attention to their gas, the more likely they are to stress and panic if they run out of air. And they are going to pull my reg out of my mouth, probably pull my mask off, and try to pull us both up to the surface. Maybe not, but that’s what I’m going with. So my second’s on a necklace where I can get it quick regardless. If everything goes calmly I’ll donate the primary and we’ll go from there.