PfcAJ
Contributor
Have to or want to?
A need to rehash our discussion on primary donate
- Thread starter tbone1004
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Not on side mount. Let's do a couple of tight restrictions and see. You would be surprised.
W W Meixner
Banned
TB...
Great post...can only comment on what I've done...and continue to do...
Doubles...dove a long time with doubles...HP steel 100's/HP steel 80's...long hose primary on right post...secondary on necklace from left post/routed to right side...under right arm/second on a 90 swivel...long hose primary was the hand-off...had three reg sets/HOG/Mares Abyss-MR22T/Poseidon Jet-Stream...all configured the same way...
Modern Double hose...new double hose systems have secondary allowance to attach a secondary hand-off on a 40'' inch hose or hose length of operators choosing...eg...Kraken/Anniverary Mistral...have never had a Kraken...but had an Anniversary Mistral...and used a conventional 2nd seconday hand-off on a 40'' yellow hose...
Vintage Double Hose...had a D A Aqua-Master...dove with an ''H'' valve...Vintage reg was on right post...1st, 2nd. HP hose and SPG on left post...hand-off was conventional second on left post...40'' yellow hose...
Current NITROX rebreathers:
Unit 1. on-board bailout to inflator 2nd...inflator hose is short...but short hand-off is better than no handoff...also an option to sling off-board bailout...1st, 2nd, 36'' LP hose, button SPG...off-board second would be hand-off...
Unit 2. sling off-board bailout...30 cu ft...1st, 2nd, 36'' LP hose, button SPG...off-board second would be hand-off...
Any applicable configuration...reviewed and confirmed with dive partner prior to commencement of dive...
Can't comment on CCR...or sidemount...other than to assume the right sidemount reg set with the long hose would be the hand-off...
Best...
Warren
Great post...can only comment on what I've done...and continue to do...
Doubles...dove a long time with doubles...HP steel 100's/HP steel 80's...long hose primary on right post...secondary on necklace from left post/routed to right side...under right arm/second on a 90 swivel...long hose primary was the hand-off...had three reg sets/HOG/Mares Abyss-MR22T/Poseidon Jet-Stream...all configured the same way...
Modern Double hose...new double hose systems have secondary allowance to attach a secondary hand-off on a 40'' inch hose or hose length of operators choosing...eg...Kraken/Anniverary Mistral...have never had a Kraken...but had an Anniversary Mistral...and used a conventional 2nd seconday hand-off on a 40'' yellow hose...
Vintage Double Hose...had a D A Aqua-Master...dove with an ''H'' valve...Vintage reg was on right post...1st, 2nd. HP hose and SPG on left post...hand-off was conventional second on left post...40'' yellow hose...
Current NITROX rebreathers:
Unit 1. on-board bailout to inflator 2nd...inflator hose is short...but short hand-off is better than no handoff...also an option to sling off-board bailout...1st, 2nd, 36'' LP hose, button SPG...off-board second would be hand-off...
Unit 2. sling off-board bailout...30 cu ft...1st, 2nd, 36'' LP hose, button SPG...off-board second would be hand-off...
Any applicable configuration...reviewed and confirmed with dive partner prior to commencement of dive...
Can't comment on CCR...or sidemount...other than to assume the right sidemount reg set with the long hose would be the hand-off...
Best...
Warren
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bit of column a, bit of column b. Have to with some of the dives that I'm doing, want to with most of them since I enjoy diving CCR. Same with doubles vs. sidemount-though you'd be surprised, I was on doubles all weekend in the caves! First time in years
I put a 9' hose on mine because 7' was a little too close for comfort. With 5ft, you're head is either between my knees, or you have to lead
I take the fact that different procedures are necessary for different configurations as a given.
If you go to something that's got maximum compatibility with different configurations, it's not going be optimal for any one of them.
Do what's best for the configuration you are using on a given day.
If you go to something that's got maximum compatibility with different configurations, it's not going be optimal for any one of them.
Do what's best for the configuration you are using on a given day.
Bob DBF
Contributor
My personal position is that we are discussing a moving target that depends on the gear and personal preference. The most important factor is having buddys on the same page and practicing what you use.
When I first started, it was all primary donation as the double hose, and later the single hose only had one mouthpiece / second.
In the '80's the alternate second was prevalent and the procedure became donate the second, as you would be able continue breathing during the evolution. BSAC continues using this procedure, and it works well for them because they continue ongoing training. Non BSAC divers may learn the practice, but without the ongoing training what happens in an emergency may not be how they were trained.
During the same time the Air 2 was marketed, which reverted back to the primary donate. As before, training is the key to effortless use.
Cave diving gave birth to the long hose and bungeed backup, again primary donate.
With the exception of early SCUBA, when there was no alternate second, there has always has been two ways to donate, with both being used dependant upon the gear choice and personal choice.
And, as always, it will depend on training and experience to make an air share to work. So it's on every diver to know where and how they are going to get their air in an emergency.
Bob
When I first started, it was all primary donation as the double hose, and later the single hose only had one mouthpiece / second.
In the '80's the alternate second was prevalent and the procedure became donate the second, as you would be able continue breathing during the evolution. BSAC continues using this procedure, and it works well for them because they continue ongoing training. Non BSAC divers may learn the practice, but without the ongoing training what happens in an emergency may not be how they were trained.
During the same time the Air 2 was marketed, which reverted back to the primary donate. As before, training is the key to effortless use.
Cave diving gave birth to the long hose and bungeed backup, again primary donate.
With the exception of early SCUBA, when there was no alternate second, there has always has been two ways to donate, with both being used dependant upon the gear choice and personal choice.
And, as always, it will depend on training and experience to make an air share to work. So it's on every diver to know where and how they are going to get their air in an emergency.
Bob
I have always felt if divers are capable of removing and rotating tanks, why is the idea of donating a tank not part of that strategy. That would eliminate the need for any long hose and since long donation is really only a holdover from backmount OC maybe it's time to rethink the way we do things.
All my CCR BOs are sidemounted.
I have a 7ft long hose on my deep BO, 40" hoses on my deco gases. I have a BOV or necklaced backup for me and don't need the long hose to bailout. The long hose is clipped to my chest on a breakaway. Taking off that SM tank is not going to work. Its either hooked into my BOV, or its a big steel cylinder, or its not rigged to readily pass off to a conventional OC diver (or all of the above). Plus if my buddy is OOA and needs my BO I am keeping them close by to make sure they don't make a stressed navigational error, or violate a ceiling, etc.
I do dive mixed teams despite it being less than ideal. Since I learned to dive in 1994 (way before my long hose days) I have yet to be mugged for gas. If I were in a DM or instructing I would go OC, but I don't dive with unknowns and on anything with actual deco my buddy has doubles and 2 regs anyway. So I'm not too paranoid about the surprise OOA.
I have a 7ft long hose on my deep BO, 40" hoses on my deco gases. I have a BOV or necklaced backup for me and don't need the long hose to bailout. The long hose is clipped to my chest on a breakaway. Taking off that SM tank is not going to work. Its either hooked into my BOV, or its a big steel cylinder, or its not rigged to readily pass off to a conventional OC diver (or all of the above). Plus if my buddy is OOA and needs my BO I am keeping them close by to make sure they don't make a stressed navigational error, or violate a ceiling, etc.
I do dive mixed teams despite it being less than ideal. Since I learned to dive in 1994 (way before my long hose days) I have yet to be mugged for gas. If I were in a DM or instructing I would go OC, but I don't dive with unknowns and on anything with actual deco my buddy has doubles and 2 regs anyway. So I'm not too paranoid about the surprise OOA.
Oh, no! Thread creep...
Have gone back and forth about THAT question a lot over the past few years. Maybe we could do another thread...
Yeah, one of the problems with this topic is that there is so little standardization in the rebreather world. Most of these articles and talks come down to one single bit of advice - the OC diver should ask the CCR diver how they want them to deal with emergencies.
Bear in mind I have less than 100 SM dive, so still new.
One thing that struck me, early on was it was easy to "forget" if I was breathing on the bungeed hose or the long hose. To be fair when "bounced" during constant training it took only a fraction of a second to realise which I was using. MY solution was that both hoses where 7' with the hoses tucked into tank bungees and breakaways on the clips
So for me it doesn't matter - you get the primary I'm using and will always be on a long hose.
So far it has worked well - except my breakaways - the O ring method isn't' suitable (they break within a month in our climate) So I'm open to ideas on that one and interested in how the discussion goes and seeing what I can glean
One thing that struck me, early on was it was easy to "forget" if I was breathing on the bungeed hose or the long hose. To be fair when "bounced" during constant training it took only a fraction of a second to realise which I was using. MY solution was that both hoses where 7' with the hoses tucked into tank bungees and breakaways on the clips
So for me it doesn't matter - you get the primary I'm using and will always be on a long hose.
So far it has worked well - except my breakaways - the O ring method isn't' suitable (they break within a month in our climate) So I'm open to ideas on that one and interested in how the discussion goes and seeing what I can glean
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