A different take on Master Scuba Diver

[Manatee Diver]

I think I see the problem. You apparently think that Fish ID is about looking at pictures. Actually, it's not. You may have noticed that in the pictures, all the fish are about the same size? And the pictures don't hide so all you can see are their eyes or their tail. And the pictures don't swim away. In fact, the pictures don't swim at all, so one of the best clues is not present. In real life, the class is about how to even find the fish, what is their behavior and habitat as an ID clue, and even time of day. and depth. You can ID all the pictures you want, and do an inept and terrible job on a dive. Looking at pictures is a start, just like looking at a video of someone in sidemount, but getting the rigging and trim right is an in-water skill....like Fish ID.

You can do videos as well, you don't have to get just close up pictures, and you can put photos in size perspective. In fact that is what a good training book or elearning should be doing. Not the crap that most agencies are putting out at the moment.

IMO a course like fish ID is an out of water course. And is a skill learned over a long period.

But hey why don't we just agree to disagree before you get all stressed out.

Yes, but some people enjoy a class setting with an instructor, and are willing to pay for that.
Is that wrong?

Nothing wrong, I just don't feel that stuff like that is the same value as courses that have specific in water exercises that have to be done. So if you are weighing a MSD with what I deem as informal/out of water courses vs classes with specific in water skills like deep, nav, drysuit, et al; I weigh those in water courses as having greater value to the skill of a diver.

 

[Lorenzoid]

Why is horizontal trim so important if donating gas and shooting an SMB? Arbitrary task requirement for ego stroking.

To my point in my post above, it's so that when the SHTF and you're stressed, you fall back on your instinct about trim and are able to keep your trim at least good enough not to get tangled up in the line or yank the hose the OOG diver is breathing from or any of the other things you could do that would make the situation worse--possibly spiraling out of control. If you practice doing an air-sharing ascent while maintaining very precise trim and buoyancy, then maybe you will get it close enough when the SHTF.

 

[tursiops]

You can do videos as well, you don't have to get just close up pictures, and you can put photos in size perspective. In fact that is what a good training book or elearning should be doing. Not the crap that most agencies are putting out at the moment.

IMO a course like fish ID is an out of water course. And is a skill learned over a long period.

But hey why don't we just agree to disagree before you get all stressed out.



So if you are weighing a MSD with what I deem as informal/out of water courses vs classes with specific in water skills like deep, nav, drysuit, et al; I weigh those in water courses as having greater value to the skill of a diver.

Herein is the difference: you are concerned only about thr personal "skill" of a diver, and apparently feel that does not include things such as distinguishing a coral from a sponge or the ability to survey the health of a reef to enhance a science database.

 

[Leatherboot69]

Herein is the difference: you are concerned only about thr personal "skill" of a diver, and apparently feel that does not include things such as distinguishing a coral from a sponge or the ability to survey the health of a reef to enhance a science database.

I know it’s not the same, but by way of comparison to qualify as a Mountain Leader you are not just assessed on technical ‘skill’ (eg cross country navigation in all weathers day or night) but also knowledge of the environment around you and ability to explain that to others.

 

[Manatee Diver]

Herein is the difference: you are concerned only about thr personal "skill" of a diver, and apparently feel that does not include things such as distinguishing a coral from a sponge or the ability to survey the health of a reef to enhance a science database.

If I want to be a runner do I need to know about all the birds and other animals I might see on my run? Or do I need to know proper forms, how to dress to stay warm for different weather, or how to run on trails?

 

[tursiops]

If I want to be a runner do I need to know about all the birds and other animals I might see on my run? Or do I need to know proper forms, how to dress to stay warm for different weather, or how to run on trails?

This is why diving is far more interesting than running.

 

[Manatee Diver]

This is why diving is far more interesting than running.View attachment 742276View attachment 742276

I don't disagree, but my point is still the same. Knowing those might enhance the experience, but it isn't a core skill required to do the activity.

 

[scubadada]

I don't disagree, but my point is still the same. Knowing those might enhance the experience, but it isn't a core skill required to do the activity.

If all you have are core skills, you'd be missing out on much of the enjoyment of diving

 

[Lorenzoid]

If all you have are core skills, you'd be missing out on much of the enjoyment of diving

Which is why a diver who has both core skills and those other skills gets the most enjoyment out of diving.

 

[Bladebreaker65]

As always when this topic comes up, the advanced pro divers (for lack of a better term) start spouting off about the name and the requirements. How about a different point of view. I started my dive road late in life. I have no interest in cave or tech diving. I was scared of the water and took a leap of faith and fell in love with this sport. After 9 yrs. of a lot of fun dives and taking courses as I could, I recently achieved the MSD rating from PADI. I am proud of what I have accomplished. No, I am not a master of anything in my eyes. I will always strive to get better. I am afraid to say I have this card for fear of the backlash and the accusations that it means nothing. It means the world to me. I achieved a goal that I set for myself. Yes I have the after diving warm up jacket covered in patches. I will put my MSD patch on it. I am proud for people to see it. I am a scuba diver. I have dive stickers on my car and gear. I do not talk like I know everything, but I do listen. So let the fundie recreational divers have some pride. If a person steps over the line with you personally, then feel free to shred them. However, do not judge me by my jacket.