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The agency standards are not equivalent. Can you shoot an smb while donating gas while maintains trim less than 20 degrees from horizontal inside +/- 1.5ft from a target depth?
What is "pro level dive theory"? I'm genuinely curious. The only tangible difference between a dive pro and us ordinary divers is we don't lead dives or teach diving.
@Leatherboot69 , you replied that's exactly what you learned in your MSD journey, and I'm sure you did. It's simply a matter of degree. Fundies teaches "team diving," which is a level of buddiness and awareness beyond what PADI teaches. As for proficiency in the water, Fundies teaches those skills to a degree beyond what I have seen from most DMs. But do we need that level of proficiency to dive safely and have fun? Maybe not.
PADI have what they call a ‘professional level’ ‘Dive Theory’ course that can be taken optionally by amateurs for interest like any other course, but at pro level counts towards the theory exam for DMs. Looking elsewhere on the forum, it seems roughly similar to the NAUI MSD theory package, but is placed in a different position in the PADI structure. My view so far is that I don’t need it for the type of diving I am doing.
ThisLet's just clear up a couple of things:
1) No one walks around with a bunch of patches on their jackets. Any kind of patches. Seriously, how many people do you see walking around with patches on their jackets? And, for PADI MSD you only get one patch. So unless you swipe all your buddies' patches, you aren't walking around with a bunch of them on. Somehow people have taken the fact that you get a MSD patch and turned it into "I see people with jackets full of them walking around the dive sites all the time, talking about how great they are." Total, complete BS.
2) It's your money, so do what you want with it. If you feel like paying for the extra card and the patch, go for it! If not, no sweat. Maybe you want to put that cash towards a nice pair of split fins
3) This is just my experience, but I have yet to see anyone whip out their MSD card.
4) Hardly anyone with MSD rating actually thinks that they have mastered diving. Yeah, the name is stupid. But in many ways the same can be said of Divemaster.
5) The PADI hate on scubaboard is and will likely remain strong. Some of that might be deserved. But where would diving be without PADI? Face it, that single agency is responsible for something like 60-75% of all certifications. Say what you want about the marketing and the money-grabbing, but they pour a lot of resources into attracting new divers and trying to keep them motivated. If we only allow the uber-hardcore BPW tech-setup folks in the club then the sport is going to die out pretty quickly. The wording of the MSD rating might be over the top, but try not to let it irk you. Just accept it for what it is: a way to get new divers thinking about the next steps and to keep them motivated to continue diving and continue their training.
Well, that goes without saying... asshats are asshats, regardless of training, skills, or pursuits. I just meant I blame their instructor for their having been certified without the proper skills being learned. They were either not taught the proper skills are were unable to demonstrate the proper skills, but received the certification anyway. That's on the instructor. Being an asshat is a separate issue entirely, and not the responsibility of the instructor. Apologies for the confussion.
I see. It's the theory portion of the DM course. My view is that if they teach it to DMs, whose job it is to lead groups and teach, I should learn it if I want the same level of competence as a DM doing that same kind of diving. I see DMs in the water, and they're not doing anything I shouldn't be able to do. If the theory is helpful to underpin what they do in the water, then it should be helpful to me, too.
The problem is we don't know with great precision where the goalposts are. In the words of my Fundies instructor, regarding how skill level translates into safety margin, "The idea is to stack the odds in your favor." When things are going smoothly, maybe typical agency-standard skills are enough. When things go wrong, maybe it's better to have an even higher skill level to draw from.
