A better ice diving class...

[peraevum]

OK OK all this talk about the boring ice training.....

Who is Joining us for some Underwater Golf and Hockey this year Nothing like playing under the ice

Hoosier, Tony, Dlent

Whoa, cool. You guys are playing underwater sports?!

 

[do it easy]

OK OK all this talk about the boring ice training.....

Who is Joining us for some Underwater Golf and Hockey this year Nothing like playing under the ice

Hoosier, Tony, Dlent

That sounds like a lot of work- maybe I'll just come out as a spectator.

 

[Hoosier]

The suggestions of taking cave training are good, although ice diving can be quite insidious since it is essentially a large cave with plenty of ambient light, that is more difficult to silt out completely. I consider this more dangerous because it engenders complacency. Would you enter a cave without cave training?

To my perspective, an ice diving should carefully approached like an ordinary cave diving if anyone really extend their range in UW ice because of the water temp.

Most cave diving is in a moderate temperature. Actually, it is a darn warm water to most mid-west divers. The cold water in a closed environment is another big factor we have to consider.

OK OK all this talk about the boring ice training.....

Who is Joining us for some Underwater Golf and Hockey this year Nothing like playing under the ice

Hoosier, Tony, Dlent

As I recall, some KY divers played UW golf at the local quarry.

Are you thinking about UW golf under an ice? When?

 

[ppo2_diver]

Hey Dave,

It's a good thing that you had an awesome instructor for many of your classes to teach you proper gas management and dive planning. You should have questioned your ice instructor on it during the "lecture" and done what you were taught by a certain great instructor when doing your ice dives through the LDS. Even if they didn't teach it to you. You were taught to create a thorough dive plan, that should be done on every dive regardless. That's what happens when you stray...

I partially agree with Tony. Doubles doesn't provide redundancy as regulators can free flow easier under the ice. Your primary back up air source should be your buddy. A stage bottle should be your secondary backup.

It is unfortunate that we have to teach the dope on a rope method for the ice class. But for the traditional recreational diver who just wants to explore around the ice hole, that method is fine assuming they learn all the other stuff about gas management, line awareness, ice conditions, etc. But for those of us who want to explore further, this isn't the preferred method. But you have to learn to crawl before you can run.

Be patient Grasshopper. Sometimes the path of least resistence isn't the most rewarding path.

 

[dlent]

I should have taken your ice diving class. I've learned my lesson.

Hey Dave,

It's a good thing that you had an awesome instructor for many of your classes to teach you proper gas management and dive planning. You should have questioned your ice instructor on it during the "lecture" and done what you were taught by a certain great instructor when doing your ice dives through the LDS. Even if they didn't teach it to you. You were taught to create a thorough dive plan, that should be done on every dive regardless. That's what happens when you stray...

I partially agree with Tony. Doubles doesn't provide redundancy as regulators can free flow easier under the ice. Your primary back up air source should be your buddy. A stage bottle should be your secondary backup.

It is unfortunate that we have to teach the dope on a rope method for the ice class. But for the traditional recreational diver who just wants to explore around the ice hole, that method is fine assuming they learn all the other stuff about gas management, line awareness, ice conditions, etc. But for those of us who want to explore further, this isn't the preferred method. But you have to learn to crawl before you can run.

Be patient Grasshopper. Sometimes the path of least resistence isn't the most rewarding path.

 

[dlent]

I wasn't taught a bunch of the stuff in your list such as: #2, #3, #6, and #7.

I also have taken the PADI ice diving specialty, not sure if this is the one you have or not.

I think the point of most specialties is much like college, it exposes you to new concepts in a safe and controled environment and provides you the tools needed to continue learning on your own.

When it come to ice diving you only mention the "dope on a rope" , this is the safe and controlled environment portion of the class. What you didn't mention was all of the other things you were exposed to:
1] How to properly cut a hole in the ice (A triangle) and why (easier to get out)
2] How to close that hole up then and mark it so other people don't fall in
3] What different types of ice look like and how much weigth they can hold
4] How hard it is cut or chip through the ice - it really is a confined environment
5] What effect extreamly cold water and air has on dive gear
6] How to mark the snow on the ice so that if you get lost you can find your way back
7] How exhaust bubbles melt the ice.. so don't do your safty stop near the cut.
8] How hard it is to get in and out of the water with out help
9] The importance of line signals
etc etc etc.
So in my opinion the value of these classes is the "experience" you gain so that you don't make the really major mistakes when it counts.

As many people have stated in the past, a specialty card doesn't mean your an expert, it just means you know enough to learn on your own.

If you want a nice read on ice diving get a copy of the "final action on the administrative investigation into the diving mishap and the resulting deaths of USCGS Healy's crewmembers that occured on 17 August 2006" Really scary account of ice diving gone bad on a coast guard cutter.

 

[do it easy]

I partially agree with Tony. Doubles doesn't provide redundancy as regulators can free flow easier under the ice. Your primary back up air source should be your buddy. A stage bottle should be your secondary backup.

That's only because your stage reg free flows! You might need redundant backup redundancy

 

[Hoosier]

I wasn't taught a bunch of the stuff in your list such as: #2, #3, #6, and #7.

There is another horror Ice diving class that I have heard locally.

There were two students and one insturctor for the ice diving class at the local quarry.


An instructor was sitting at the chair on the ground and two students had to get into the water without any instructor's supervision in UW.

Yeah.. An instructor didn't want to jump in a cold water. Can you believe that?

It is a real stroy that I have heard from one of the students who taken.

 

[ppo2_diver]

There is another horror Ice diving class that I have heard locally.

There were two students and one insturctor for the ice diving class at the local quarry.


An instructor was sitting at the chair on the ground and two students had to get into the water without any instructor's supervision in UW.

Yeah.. An instructor didn't want to jump in a cold water. Can you believe that?

It is a real stroy that I have heard from one of the students who taken.

Ha! I've got that beat. When I did my original ice diver class, the instructor never even got out of his street clothes, let alone in the water. On top of that, I had equipment problems (Thanks ScubaFlow!!!) and couldn't do the dives. He tried to get me to go under by myself with a free-flowing regulator. Nice! Instead of rescheduling or giving me my money back, he still certified me without doing any ice dives. Do I hear someone yelling "standards violation"?

For people considering an ice class through PADI, a little piece of information. Your instructor must be in the water with you at all times and not a certified assistant (DM or AI)!!!!

I could be deranged, but I like ice diving and am looking forward to this winter's ice activities now that Tony and I can run 1600 feet of line.

 

[peraevum]

Ha! I've got that beat. When I did my original ice diver class, the instructor never even got out of his street clothes, let alone in the water. On top of that, I had equipment problems (Thanks ScubaFlow!!!) and couldn't do the dives. He tried to get me to go under by myself with a free-flowing regulator. Nice! Instead of rescheduling or giving me my money back, he still certified me without doing any ice dives. Do I hear someone yelling "standards violation"?

Care to share who the instructor or dive organization was? :11: