A better ice diving class...
- Thread starter dlent
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Divemaster
Sounds like some of it is due to the Instructor....The lecture should have lasted alot more than 5minutes and their is a book for Ice Diving...
If you dont mind me asking, where did you take the class? LDS or Private Instructor?
Also, how does the floating line inhibit diving? It still goes under with you.....Just curious as to your thoughts
Hi. Yes, I agree. A lot of it was due to the instructor. It was an LDS. The floating line doesn't inhibit your diving per say, but I'd rather have a 400' reel that I can use with a set of doubles to go pretty far underwater. Just going in a 100' circle isn't much fun.
Rainer
Contributor
Oh, I didn't mind being limited to 100' when I did the class. It was fine for what it is. Sure, the in water time isn't thrilling, but it was a good time. I really enjoyed the rest of the experience as well (cutting the hole, setting up, helping, seeing friends, etc). It is important, though, that anyone taking the class recognize what it is and isn't. This is NOT a class to become an ice diver. It's a class to have an "ice diving experience". Nothing more. If you want to actively and freely dive under the ice, take a cave class and hook up with those doing real ice dives.
DNK
Guest
I also have taken the PADI ice diving specialty, not sure if this is the one you have or not.
I think the point of most specialties is much like college, it exposes you to new concepts in a safe and controled environment and provides you the tools needed to continue learning on your own.
When it come to ice diving you only mention the "dope on a rope" , this is the safe and controlled environment portion of the class. What you didn't mention was all of the other things you were exposed to:
1] How to properly cut a hole in the ice (A triangle) and why (easier to get out)
2] How to close that hole up then and mark it so other people don't fall in
3] What different types of ice look like and how much weigth they can hold
4] How hard it is cut or chip through the ice - it really is a confined environment
5] What effect extreamly cold water and air has on dive gear
6] How to mark the snow on the ice so that if you get lost you can find your way back
7] How exhaust bubbles melt the ice.. so don't do your safty stop near the cut.
8] How hard it is to get in and out of the water with out help
9] The importance of line signals
etc etc etc.
So in my opinion the value of these classes is the "experience" you gain so that you don't make the really major mistakes when it counts.
As many people have stated in the past, a specialty card doesn't mean your an expert, it just means you know enough to learn on your own.
If you want a nice read on ice diving get a copy of the "final action on the administrative investigation into the diving mishap and the resulting deaths of USCGS Healy's crewmembers that occured on 17 August 2006" Really scary account of ice diving gone bad on a coast guard cutter.
I think the point of most specialties is much like college, it exposes you to new concepts in a safe and controled environment and provides you the tools needed to continue learning on your own.
When it come to ice diving you only mention the "dope on a rope" , this is the safe and controlled environment portion of the class. What you didn't mention was all of the other things you were exposed to:
1] How to properly cut a hole in the ice (A triangle) and why (easier to get out)
2] How to close that hole up then and mark it so other people don't fall in
3] What different types of ice look like and how much weigth they can hold
4] How hard it is cut or chip through the ice - it really is a confined environment
5] What effect extreamly cold water and air has on dive gear
6] How to mark the snow on the ice so that if you get lost you can find your way back
7] How exhaust bubbles melt the ice.. so don't do your safty stop near the cut.
8] How hard it is to get in and out of the water with out help
9] The importance of line signals
etc etc etc.
So in my opinion the value of these classes is the "experience" you gain so that you don't make the really major mistakes when it counts.
As many people have stated in the past, a specialty card doesn't mean your an expert, it just means you know enough to learn on your own.
If you want a nice read on ice diving get a copy of the "final action on the administrative investigation into the diving mishap and the resulting deaths of USCGS Healy's crewmembers that occured on 17 August 2006" Really scary account of ice diving gone bad on a coast guard cutter.
You've been hanging out with Duane too much- he'll lead you down to the dark side. 
There are some situations where the Dope-on-a-Rope method would be preferable- the only one I could think of would be under ice, in a river and through the woods, with current. Public Safety diving excluded!
Gas management is easy under ice with the line and tender method- 4 tugs, big exhale, and you'll be at the surface in no time.
I took a pretty thorough PADI ice diving class, that covered all the stuff that DNK mentioned, plus some stuff about hypothermia and first aid.
There are some situations where the Dope-on-a-Rope method would be preferable- the only one I could think of would be under ice, in a river and through the woods, with current. Public Safety diving excluded!
Gas management is easy under ice with the line and tender method- 4 tugs, big exhale, and you'll be at the surface in no time.
I took a pretty thorough PADI ice diving class, that covered all the stuff that DNK mentioned, plus some stuff about hypothermia and first aid.
Hoosier
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dlent,
I understand your frustration though. You are expecting too much on the entry level class. There are a lot of roots you can enhance your skill by taking more advanced class. I don't think any entry level ice diving in a rec. range won't teach any reel skill in an ice diving class for the safety reason.
For a pedagogic perspective, instructor and agency can't set up the standard only for the upper level. Even many instructors who are teaching ICE diving do NOT have any advanced trainings, such as Cavern, Cave, or Wreck. In addition, depending on the region, many ice diving instructors have a lack of experience in an ice diving as well.
So, if you really want to get more sophisticated reel skill, take a cavern class. It is more than enough for your advanced ice diving...
I understand your frustration though. You are expecting too much on the entry level class. There are a lot of roots you can enhance your skill by taking more advanced class. I don't think any entry level ice diving in a rec. range won't teach any reel skill in an ice diving class for the safety reason.
For a pedagogic perspective, instructor and agency can't set up the standard only for the upper level. Even many instructors who are teaching ICE diving do NOT have any advanced trainings, such as Cavern, Cave, or Wreck. In addition, depending on the region, many ice diving instructors have a lack of experience in an ice diving as well.
So, if you really want to get more sophisticated reel skill, take a cavern class. It is more than enough for your advanced ice diving...
Oh, another pet peeve is redundancy- I'm not convinced that doubles are redundant enough. The chances of free flowing a reg are higher with colder water, which coincidentally, increases the chances of free flowing both regs.
I think a slung bottle adds enough redundancy to avoid having to do the "continuous valve drill exit."
The suggestions of taking cave training are good, although ice diving can be quite insidious since it is essentially a large cave with plenty of ambient light, that is more difficult to silt out completely. I consider this more dangerous because it engenders complacency.
I think a slung bottle adds enough redundancy to avoid having to do the "continuous valve drill exit."
The suggestions of taking cave training are good, although ice diving can be quite insidious since it is essentially a large cave with plenty of ambient light, that is more difficult to silt out completely. I consider this more dangerous because it engenders complacency.
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OK OK all this talk about the boring ice training.....
Who is Joining us for some Underwater Golf and Hockey this year Nothing like playing under the ice
Hoosier, Tony, Dlent
PS.....I agree with all the above training statements and am not blowing it off......but Im looking forward to playing under the ice this year and this thread got me going
Who is Joining us for some Underwater Golf and Hockey this year
Nothing like playing under the iceHoosier, Tony, Dlent
PS.....I agree with all the above training statements and am not blowing it off......but Im looking forward to playing under the ice this year and this thread got me going
OK OK all this talk about the boring ice training.....
Who is Joining us for some Underwater Golf and Hockey this year
Hoosier, Tony, Dlent
PS.....I agree with all the above training statements and am not blowing it off......but Im looking forward to playing under the ice this year and this thread got me going
Cool...what about the 'games'!
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