A better ice diving class...

[do it easy]

That is crazy. I get cold just looking at that.

Some days, it's warmer in the water than on the surface That's when bolt snaps freeze shut and neoprene freezes solid. :11:

 

[Dive Right In Scuba]

Check out page 2...this is some Ice Training we did with FD, unfortunately didnt have a camera in the water....will try and get some Video this year and more in water pics....and Definetly some pics of the Ice Golf and Hockey

Dive Right in Scuba's Gallery


Check out one of the Instructors in Flip Fins He could actually do something unlike the safety divers


This is how thick it was that day.... 12+ Inches







PS....thats one of my secret quarries

 

[ppo2_diver]

Just because you asked... :10:

In the second picture you can see the radial pattern shoveled into the snow to mark the hole.

Hmmmm. Those pictures look familiar.

 

[ppo2_diver]

I like the one with the guy in doubles. For some reason, that is the classic pose after ice diving.

At least he didn't fall into the hole.

 

[do it easy]

Hmmmm. Those pictures look familiar.

Yeah, I took them off some poor guys website!

At least he didn't fall into the hole.

I was practicing my giant slide entry- both times. Next time, let me get in the hole first and you won't have to worry about getting squashed.

 

[Mike Edmonston]

we want pictures....love ice pictures

Here's an Ice dive that I did with Tamara Thomsen, Elizabeth Kaiser and Craig Carlson at Diversions Scuba in Madison Wisconsin. They are all great instructors, and a nicer bunch of people you'll be hard pressed to find.

The After dive chili was awesone too....

 

[Hoosier]

It looks like the diver on the picture was using Atomic SSI safe second inflator like SP Air 2.

Glad to see that it is an ice diving proven design...

 

[ppo2_diver]

Yeah, I took them off some poor guys website!

Poor is right. This helium stuff is expensive!!!

 

[DA Aquamaster]

Since I work with a law enforcement search and recovery dive team-Should I consider myself looking for the "dope without a rope" when you come up missing? Something to consider. I worry about those who have to go looking for you....on a rope.

There are pros and cons to the tether method and all traiditional ice classes are not created equal.

Back in the '80's when I was first exposed to an ice diving class the protocol was:

1. One diver in the water on a 100' rope
2. One backup diver sitting on the edge of the hole with a 125' rope.
3. One tender for each diver
4. Ropes attached to the ice with ice screws (in the event the tender fell, dropped the line, etc)

However by the late 1990's the PADI Ice Diving courses I observed had a protocol that had changed.

1. Two divers in the water on equal lenght ropes.
2. Ropes hand held by the tenders
3. Tenders moved around the holes with the divers to reduce crossing of lines etc.

I suspect the differences are due to:

1. Change in cold water reliability of regulators. Double hose regs are bullet proof in cold water and older all metal second stage single hose regs are nearly bulet proof in terms of second stage freezeup (that could result in a failure to deliver air). But modern single hose regs with plastic cases are more prone to second stage problems and many first stages offer high flow rates (and high adibatic cooling) but many of those same first stages are not sealed making them poor choices for ice diving. In short, modern dive gear has in some respects become less reliable for ice diving.

2. Two divers in the water = consistewncy with the buddy system - potentiated by the use of less reliable regs by a large percentage of woudl be recreational ice divers.

3. Possibly variation in local traditions and techiques.

The results of this however are pretty appalling as you now have:

1. Two divers in the water potentially crossing lines, creating entanglement issues and interfering with tender signals.

2. Two tenders on the ice moving around the holes with unsecured lines. Even with sand and gravel on the ice, it is a slip, fall and drop the line accident waiting to happen.

3. In most cases use of a pony is not encouraged so you have two divers in the water with less reliable regs and a higher potential to freeflow. The short line means you are close to the hole - if you can communicate with the moving tender through a crossed and or entangled line. More likely you will air share with the buddy, potentially pushing his or her reg over the cooling limit into a freeflow situation.

Personally, I am not sure that the current practices in ice diving make much sense even for recreational divers, but the alternative is to teach cave techniques and that takes it out of the range of most recreational divers.

They may make sense for a PSD diver doing a recovery as usually a drowning victim is not going to drift far from the whatever hole in the ice they fell into. And, no offense intended but PSD divers are often to diving what law enforcement offiers are to shooting. Most LEO's are not gun people, do not shoot as often as people who pursue it as a hobby and are frankly not often as good as the talented and committed recreational shooter. There are notable exceptions but most of the PSD divers I know or have met follow a similar pattern of doing it as part of their PD or FD job, but not being hard core technical divers. So the traditional tether makes sense from the perspective of both the mission and the level of training and currency of the weakest diver in the unit.

My preference when ice diving is to use a single tank with a properly sealed/environmentally protected cold water reg with a 30 or 40 cu ft slung pony for redundancy. I agree that a set of manifolded doubles does not offer quie enough redundancy in a freeze flow situation unless you close the isolator and essentially use them as independent doubles - unless you are absolutley sure you can reach and close the isolator in a dry suit with heavy underwear, dry gloves, etc. Even then, it can be a difficult to get a chilled doubles equipped diver out of the hole. A slung pony can be handed out and even if not, the total weight and bulk is less with a single tank and pony. Plus the slung pony can be shut off until needed eliminating the potential for the second stage getting bumped, freezing up and freeflowing. Even if it did the valve could be manually operated for each breath until it thawed.

My other preference is to run a shot line down the hole (secured to the ice with an ice screw) and then run a reel off this down line much like you would in a wreck or a cave. The problem is that finding a few like minded ice divers can be difficult and if the rest of them are dope on a rope indoctrinated, that ends up being what you do. Ice diving logistics and preparation are such that it is not a 1 or 2 person activity.

In any event unless your dope on a rope buddies have excellent bouyancy control and fin techniques, the bottom will quickly get stirred up and you lose the good visibility advantage that ice diving otherwise offers - making the whole thing more work that it is worth.

One variant I enjoy is to ice dive early and late in the season on large lakes where the ice will form over the bays long before it forms on the main body of the lake and where it will remain after the ice has melted in the main body of the lake. In this case, you can often enter open water on a point and then swim back into a bay or cove using a cave reel. All of the benfits of ice diving without the work of cutting the hole.

 

[Scubadude773]

Hi Guys,
Count me In this year for the underwater golf and hockey games.
Thanks,
Robb