13 year old diver dies - Oahu, Hawaii

[Wookie]

Were none of you around for 8:2? I have hundreds of DSD certs, all at 8:2. It could be done safely.

 

[tursiops]

Were none of you around for 8:2? I have hundreds of DSD certs, all at 8:2. It could be done safely.

This is hardly a compelling argument! All it takes is one bozo DSD student to ruin that perfect record. No thanks.

 

[Marie13]

In hindsight after being certified a few years, I don't think DSD is something I'd recommend to anyone (anyone I liked at least). What my feelings would of been before diving, and having the opportunity, I'm not sure. I'm trying to relate this to something else for comparison, and all I'm coming up with is driving a car. It 'can' be dangerous but most times is not. You can't even do a test drive of a car to 'see if you like driving'.

You against pool only DSDs, too?

 

[Wookie]

My point is that DSDs can be safely performed. Or not. Although lowering the ratio increases the odds of success, until we acknowledge that scuba diving is a dangerous sport that can be done in a safe manner instead of making up arbitrary rules, folks will die.

It’s about the attitude with which it approached, not the rules governing it. Rules just keep the folks who dive safe anyways safe. For the unsafe, no amount of rules or ratios will help.

 

[Esprise Me]

8:2 might be safer than 4:1, even though it pencils out the same mathematically. The question that keeps being raised is what to do if one guy bolts, because to go after him means leaving the others alone. This could cause them to panic and do something stupid, where they would've probably been fine if they'd stayed put. So if you have 8 noobs and 2 pros, one pro goes after the bolter while the other stays with the remaining 7 noobs and keeps them calm. Hopefully the whole group reunites, but if not the second pro brings everyone slowly to the surface. The odds of a second bolter in that group are probably pretty slim.

 

[Wookie]

8:2 might be safer than 4:1, even though it pencils out the same mathematically. The question that keeps being raised is what to do if one guy bolts, because to go after him means leaving the others alone. This could cause them to panic and do something stupid, where they would've probably been fine if they'd stayed put. So if you have 8 noobs and 2 pros, one pro goes after the bolter while the other stays with the remaining 7 noobs and keeps them calm. Hopefully the whole group reunites, but if not the second pro brings everyone slowly to the surface. The odds of a second bolter in that group are probably pretty slim.

Actually, I would lead the dive in 20 feet while my DM stayed on the surface in full gear, following us. I never had a bolter, but I did have some lose buoyancy and go to the surface. She would ensure they stayed safely there.

 

[divinh]

Post #18 and #19 in this thread has a Koh Tao DSD incident, as reported by the instructor involved:

Try Scuba Accident..what happens next?

Summary: One instructor, three DSD. They completed one dive successfully. On the second dive, they were heading back to the boat. He took his eyes off of them to check the surroundings to verify they were headed toward the boat. When he turned around, one of the DSD divers was gone and the other two didn't know where she went. They reversed course but could not find her. He took the two DSD divers to the boat, told the boat he was missing a diver and asked the boat if they saw any bubble trails. He went back down to investigate a bubble trail, but it wasn't her. When he got back to the boat, another coworker had found her in 6m of water without the reg in her mouth. They got her on the boat. She was attended to by two customer divers who were doctors. They got her to the hospital...

 

[yle]

I did DSD with my 15 yo son in Puerto Adventuras. The instructor spent about an hour and a half in the pool with us after we had already tried the demo for about 30 min each. When we entered the open water with a hard bottom of 35', we paused at 20' and redid skills on line. Once satisfied we descended and she stayed within arms reach of both of us the entire time. Smooth easy no current,1' surge or less, 70' visibility. Asked for pressure every 5 min and physically checked it herself every other time. Went smoothly and felt like it was as controlled and as safe as can be.

Until one of you bolts....

There is no reason other than greed to have a ratio other than 1:1. Or at least have a DM to watch the person who didn't bolt while you go after them and try and slow them down.

Essential issue with DSDs: they always go just fine, very smooth, under control... until they don't.

Plenty of testimonials from successful DSDs are available. But even if 99.9% are uneventful, there is something wrong with the system if it results in a preventable injury or death.

 

[yle]

. So if you have 8 noobs and 2 pros, one pro goes after the bolter while the other stays with the remaining 7 noobs and keeps them calm. Hopefully the whole group reunites, but if not the second pro brings everyone slowly to the surface. The odds of a second bolter in that group are probably pretty slim.

Not nearly as slim as you might think.

Big group of people that have never been diving before... herd mentality is strong with them.

As long as everyone is looking at pretty fish... everyone keeps looking at pretty fish. But if one of them breaks rank and heads up... good luck.

 

[Diving Dubai]

I never had a bolter

I have. It was one on my first DSD, a boy and girl friend. I was still a new instructor, so for my confidence took another instructor in the sea. Thus ration was 2:2

At the beginning of the dive we were at 6m, checking all was okay - boyfriend holding his girlfriend's hand. She spat her reg I lifted her to the surface with a couple of kicks (faster than I thought I could) The other instructor had physically separated her BF.

It all happened very fast and came out of the blue. She was fine and happy on the surface (we did surface snorkel swim using our regs) It'd scared the crap out of me. Fortunately I get to avoid DSD's