13 year old diver dies - Oahu, Hawaii

[MichaelMc]

Sorry for confusing your post; I thought Jim and Sally were two different students.Does it make a difference?

Depending on the below it may matter if the shop lets the customer decide if they do confined first or go straight to the boat and the anchor line version. I added 'Instructor' titles to the above post for Jim and Sally.

Who is we? Why do "we need" the rules? Yes, you are just speculating.

'We' is us in this discussion.

What seems interesting to me is that
- *If* Padi skills-on-line is dependent on confined water being 'inaccessible'.
- The shop offering two options, chosen between by the customer, seems inconsistent with that rule.

*But* that discussion is dependent on the details of Padi rules. Which I do not have any understanding of beyond that quote. So we can do nice speculation, but it is mostly pointless without understanding the Padi rules.

 

[tursiops]

The PADI standard is what it is, there is no further explanation.
Did you not understand my attempt to explain that "inaccessible" might depend on the things like how much time the student has, or additional costs for a pool, or distance? The world, and this word, are not black-and-white.

 

[MichaelMc]

The PADI standard is what it is, there is no further explanation.

Ok.

Did you not understand my attempt to explain that "inaccessible" might depend on the things like how much time the student has, or additional costs for a pool, or distance? The world, and this word, are not black-and-white.

I understood that inaccessible may cover many things. And I understand that standards are written for global use. Some shops may not have open water near by. Some shops may not have 120' water nearby for deep certs. Some shops may not have confined water nearby, for whatever reason.

The skills on a line rule included a phrase about shallow water being inaccessible. Possibly for shops that have no confined water option nearby. Hard to say why.

This shop's web site offers two discover options, one using confined shallow water, the other using skills on a line from the boat. *If* the skills on a line is dependent on shallow being inaccessible, and a customer at the shop counter chooses to turn right toward the non-shallow boat, instead of left toward the pool, shore, or shallow boat, is the shallow water inaccessible condition satisfied for doing skills on a line on the non-shallow boat?

If so, that would seem a very weak definition of 'inaccessible'.

If not, what level of 'inaccessible' is needed for the skills on line option? Is that consistent with a shop offering both options?

Finally, do customers at *this* shop, whose web site lists two discover options, face such a choice? This boy went diving in the morning. If a different boy had said they wanted the shop's other option, would they have still been in this shop's confined shallow water at that same time? Making it seem like shallow water was accessible for use by the shop, if not necessarily accessible to the customer's preference if the ocean dive was also to be done that day.

 

[KevinNM]

I remember looking into DSD in Kona for a nephew. They required the pool DSD. After that they would consider doing a DSD shallow ocean dive or boat dive. It seems more than a bit crazy to be doing 4:1 in the ocean in bad visibility without any pool work first.

 

[BlueTrin]

I remember looking into DSD in Kona for a nephew. They required the pool DSD. After that they would consider doing a DSD shallow ocean dive or boat dive. It seems more than a bit crazy to be doing 4:1 in the ocean in bad visibility without any pool work first.

I find it a bit curious to do a DIscover Scuba from a boat rather than from a shallow shore dive.

 

[divinh]

I find it a bit curious to do a DIscover Scuba from a boat rather than from a shallow shore dive.

All of the DSD's I've witness have been from boats. A shore DSD dive sounds odd.

 

[BlueTrin]

All of the DSD's I've witness have been from boats. A shore DSD dive sounds odd.

I have never done one outside of a pool.

Do you jump off a bit and follow a line ?
How does the instructor herd people who may not descend vertically ?

 

[Wookie]

All of the DSD's I've witness have been from boats. A shore DSD dive sounds odd.

Depends on the quality of the house reef. At Anse Chastenet in St. Lucia, the house reef is world class.

 

[divinh]

I have never done one outside of a pool.

Do you jump off a bit and follow a line ?
How does the instructor herd people who may not descend vertically ?

I've never done one. I did the OW course first thing. The DSD's I've witness had mostly one or two participants with one instructor or one instructor with a DM. Depending on the comfort level of the participant, s/he either jumps off or goes down a ladder. Once in the water, s/he usually descends along a line. Afterward, s/he is swimming along (i.e. someone's who seems to have had some diving experience but no certifications), hand held, or pulled along by the tank valve.

 

[divinh]

Ok.


I understood that inaccessible may cover many things. And I understand that standards are written for global use. Some shops may not have open water near by. Some shops may not have 120' water nearby for deep certs. Some shops may not have confined water nearby, for whatever reason.

The skills on a line rule included a phrase about shallow water being inaccessible. Possibly for shops that have no confined water option nearby. Hard to say why.

This shop's web site offers two discover options, one using confined shallow water, the other using skills on a line from the boat. *If* the skills on a line is dependent on shallow being inaccessible, and a customer at the shop counter chooses to turn right toward the non-shallow boat, instead of left toward the pool, shore, or shallow boat, is the shallow water inaccessible condition satisfied for doing skills on a line on the non-shallow boat?

If so, that would seem a very weak definition of 'inaccessible'.

If not, what level of 'inaccessible' is needed for the skills on line option? Is that consistent with a shop offering both options?

Finally, do customers at *this* shop, whose web site lists two discover options, face such a choice? This boy went diving in the morning. If a different boy had said they wanted the shop's other option, would they have still been in this shop's confined shallow water at that same time? Making it seem like shallow water was accessible for use by the shop, if not necessarily accessible to the customer's preference if the ocean dive was also to be done that day.

For the OW course, there was another thread that said that for the skills portion for OW, they could be done in a pool or shallow, calm open water. Perhaps DSD's allow similar situations for the skills portion?

As for inaccessibility, it sounds like a customer can choose between a full day, where skills are in a pool first, or go directly to the open water portion. If the customer is short on time, s/he may choose the direct to open water. Or the timing is such that s/he arrived after the pool skills have already been taught yet wants to go anyway, to be with relatives/friends at the same time on the boat. S/he can pick up the skills on the first dive.