13 year old diver dies - Oahu, Hawaii

[JackD342]

Well, the instructors could have their union rep explain to the owner what a nice shop he has and what a pity it would be if something were to happen to it, the owner's kneecaps, and their entire extended family. Or there could be a law telling the owner where to stick his expectations. Choose wisely.

The instructor's union rep? Really? Union?!? Scuba?!?!? Minimum hourly wage is tough enough.
It is to laugh...

 

[Esprise Me]

Colliam7, I think I understand what you're saying, but if you don't mind my asking: do you think a set of conditions exists under which a person exercising good judgment would take four non-divers on a DSD in open water? If so, what would those conditions be? If not, does it make sense to have a ceiling of 4, as opposed to either a lower ceiling or no ceiling at all? Because a ceiling of 4 to me suggests that, absent unusually challenging conditions, it's safe for one instructor to take 4 people on a DSD without help, and I'm skeptical of that notion, though I don't know enough to say it's wrong.

 

[Bob DBF]

Because a ceiling of 4 to me suggests that, absent unusually challenging conditions, it's safe for one instructor to take 4 people on a DSD without help, and I'm skeptical of that notion, though I don't know enough to say it's wrong.

You do, but nice move. I am difinatly not a "dive proffessional", but I would ask when one is supervising 4 DSD divers, when one bolts for the surface, do you go for the bolter or do you supervise the other three?

I have had enough dives with erratic divers that were certifified, that diving with someone trying it out for a fun dive with little knowledge of diving boggles my mind.


Bob

 

[divinh]

You do, but nice move. I am difinatly not a "dive proffessional", but I would ask when one is supervising 4 DSD divers, when one bolts for the surface, do you go for the bolter or do you supervise the other three?

I have had enough dives with erratic divers that were certifified, that diving with someone trying it out for a fun dive with little knowledge of diving boggles my mind.

I've had many insta-buddies just swim off in some random direction. Most of the time, I will follow within reach, if we're within view of the guide, even if we're swimming away. Sometimes I act as a bridge, keeping an eye on the insta-buddy and the guide. One time, when there was no buddy system, one diver just bolted off and I signaled to the guide whether I should chase, but he signaled "no". The diver eventually did come back to the group, after disappearing completely from view for a bit.

I've met some competent DSD divers who never got certified but were very comfortable in the water and seemed to know how to dive. Maybe they had some lessons unofficially from friends? I can see a group of four in those situations, but definitely not with complete novices.

 

[MrBigfins]

I did DSD with my 15 yo son in Puerto Adventuras. The instructor spent about an hour and a half in the pool with us after we had already tried the demo for about 30 min each. When we entered the open water with a hard bottom of 35', we paused at 20' and redid skills on line. Once satisfied we descended and she stayed within arms reach of both of us the entire time. Smooth easy no current,1' surge or less, 70' visibility. Asked for pressure every 5 min and physically checked it herself every other time. Went smoothly and felt like it was as controlled and as safe as can be.

 

[tursiops]

Went smoothly and felt like it was as controlled and as safe as can be.

Until one of you bolts....

There is no reason other than greed to have a ratio other than 1:1. Or at least have a DM to watch the person who didn't bolt while you go after them and try and slow them down.

 

[MrBigfins]

I'm not against a 1:1 ratio. But the benign conditions present, and the more than average time spent in the pool working and double checking skills, reassessing those skills and our comfort level while on line in open water, and close enough the entire time to grab a bolter. I would say our particular instance was as close to controlled as a dive professional can make it. I'm also sure that our situation is not as atypical as it should be on DSDs. Also where exactly was one of us to bolt to at an average depth of 25' and max under 30'?

 

[wgw04024]

In hindsight after being certified a few years, I don't think DSD is something I'd recommend to anyone (anyone I liked at least). What my feelings would of been before diving, and having the opportunity, I'm not sure. I'm trying to relate this to something else for comparison, and all I'm coming up with is driving a car. It 'can' be dangerous but most times is not. You can't even do a test drive of a car to 'see if you like driving'.

 

[tursiops]

I would say our particular instance was as close to controlled as a dive professional can make it.

Unless the ratio is 1:1. Then it is even better.

 

[Bob DBF]

I've had many insta-buddies just swim off in some random direction.

Annoying, but what if that random direction is straight up and fast? A trained diver swimming off is not the same as one not trained.

I've met some competent DSD divers who never got certified but were very comfortable in the water and seemed to know how to dive

And for any random diver in a DSD what would you want the agency and instructor assume?

As for "divers who never got certified but were very comfortable in the water and seemed to know how to dive", I dove for 17 years, some of which are now considered tech, without formal certification, not unusual at the time. The DSD was not considered to be necessary until much later.


Bob