son wants to scuba for his 8th birthday

[Angelo Farina]

I always thought that being fit for diving depends only marginally on atletic capabilities, such as swimming 200m in less than 2 minutes. Most of the fitness comes from brain and body control, particularly when under stress or in danger situations.
This partly comes with experience, and partly is genetically determined.
Some people never get this control, even after decades of experience and more than 1000 dives.
Some others reach a complete control in just 3 or 4 years, during which they make just 100 dives.
If you are in the second group (which in my experience amount to 25- 33 % of students) and you start early enough (at 5-6 years), and you manage to conduct 100-150 dives with your instructor parents, at 12 you have got enough self control for being quite a safe buddy, and you can start diving "normally".
I mean, in a group of 4- 6 divers, with a buddy of similar experience and following a divemaster.
During the previous 6 years, and the first 100 dive, the child is not yet a reliable buddy, and should dive only together with an experienced instructor, capable of providing safety for both.
The problem is with divers of the first group. 40 years ago, when I started, these students were identified along the 6-months-long diving course, and not certified. They were told they were unsuitable for becoming divers, and that was all. Only 25% of students of a diving course were being certified.
But around 1980 PADI arrived, convincing people that "everyone can become a scuba diver", thanks to modern equipment (BCD, suit, octopus, SPG, and later computer), and that learning some "skills" was a reasonable substitute for lack of brains and body control.
40 years later I must admit that for adults doing light rec diving Padi was right, diving can be fun and reasonably safe for everyone.
I am still convinced that this is not true for male youngsters in the risky age (14-24)...
So, having male sons, better to act earlier. Around 6-8 a good instructor can easily find if a child is genetically equipped for reaching proper self control. In this case, proper training can start and be completed before entering the risky age range. If the child is lacking self control, then better to postpone scuba diving (and any other dangerous sport) until 24 or 25...

 

[TMHeimer]

Angelo, We agree on a lot of stuff. Ideally, all new divers should buddy with an experienced diver, ideally a Rescue cert. diver, or of course an instructor. PADI's OW manual suggests OW graduates get the phone number of all in the class as they are possible buddies right away. I disagree--none have rescue skills, for one thing.
I particularly agree that youngsters should be buddied with probably no less than a dive pro. But, apparently both parent and child (12?) can do the same OW course together then dive as buddies (to no more than 40' 3+ metres)--because the kid is with a certified diver. To me, that's insane.
I agree that diving ability/fitness has little to do with swimming 200 meters (with PADI there is no time limit). But that's another topic. Many instructors have argued the purpose of these tests is to determine "comfortability" in water. When I ask for a definition of comfortability, I get an array of answers. I think anyone who does any activity involving water you can't easily stand in should know a proper swim stroke. But again, discussed to death on the Going Pro forum rgeading the DM watermanship tests.
I do think you're pushing it with the male 14-24. Not from a scuba stand point, but maybe based on my own life-- I was a full time teacher at age 23, as were several others on staff. I guess the "maturity/brain development" of 14-24 age group of males can be argued, and of course it nowhere near applies (IMO) to a majority. But, I could be wrong--it's not my field of study.

 

[Belzelbub]

I particularly agree that youngsters should be buddied with probably no less than a dive pro. But, apparently both parent and child (12?) can do the same OW course together then dive as buddies (to no more than 40' 3+ metres)--because the kid is with a certified diver. To me, that's insane.

I agree, but one point of clarification. With SSI, at least, the young diver gets a Jr OW cert when they complete the course. That can automatically be upgraded to OW at 15. While under the Jr cert, there is a restriction on who the dive buddy can be. It can either be a Divemaster or above or a parent. Can’t be an older certified friend, etc.

That said, I do agree that in the case of a parent getting certified together with the child, the parent is not experienced enough to be a good buddy in most cases. But that all depends on the child and the adult. I’d put either of my kids skill level at certification above most of the adults in the class. For reference, and I know the comment wasn’t directed at me, I had 25 years (on and off at first) diving before my oldest was certified.

For the most part, I’m OK with the parent stipulation. I’d say adding AOW to the parent might be a good idea, but I’m really not sure what good it would do, as not every AOW certified diver is really competent. Maybe a time, or dive number requirement would be beneficial, but still, a child is probably going to dive with a parent either way. The restriction might block entry on some charters, or some dive sites, but for the most part, probably not.

 

[TMHeimer]

I agree, but one point of clarification. With SSI, at least, the young diver gets a Jr OW cert when they complete the course. That can automatically be upgraded to OW at 15. While under the Jr cert, there is a restriction on who the dive buddy can be. It can either be a Divemaster or above or a parent. Can’t be an older certified friend, etc.

That said, I do agree that in the case of a parent getting certified together with the child, the parent is not experienced enough to be a good buddy in most cases. But that all depends on the child and the adult. I’d put either of my kids skill level at certification above most of the adults in the class. For reference, and I know the comment wasn’t directed at me, I had 25 years (on and off at first) diving before my oldest was certified.

For the most part, I’m OK with the parent stipulation. I’d say adding AOW to the parent might be a good idea, but I’m really not sure what good it would do, as not every AOW certified diver is really competent. Maybe a time, or dive number requirement would be beneficial, but still, a child is probably going to dive with a parent either way. The restriction might block entry on some charters, or some dive sites, but for the most part, probably not.

PADI is the same regarding the Jr. being upgraded at age 15. I like the SSI rule of the buddy having to be a dive pro (or in my opinion, at least a rescue diver), but not with the parent as buddy. I know the parent will dive with the kid anyway and no way to police this since anyone anywhere can dive even without certification--legally in most places I guess, and especially with shore diving.
I'm not sure why SSI would sanction the kid diving with the parent, but not a different adult (who could be more experienced). Possibly because it's unlikely people from the same family won't sue each other and drag SSI into it? Just a strange rule.
Doesn't change my in the minority opinion that no one younger than 15 should be diving.

 

[ToneNQ]

ToneNQ--regarding ".....coming to your aid, many children would surprise you". I assume you are basing this on seeing children perform in a course, or in "set up" situations to test them? I assume you are not talking about actual dive incidents you have personally observed or heard of?

Yes mate. I've seen a few instances of kids helping elderly grandparents, but there's also plenty of stories of parents who've collapsed and the kids call an ambulance and get them into the recovery position etc.

Some of them will have done first aid, others are being instructed by the ambulance dispatcher. Either way, kids follow instruction well, their default programming is to listen and learn. They definitely have their moments though.

 

[ToneNQ]

............
Personally I think that the most dangerous age for being introduced to diving is around 14. If one is not trained when a child, better to wait at 24-25. This is mostly for males, females are more responsible at 14-20.
..........

So just park them in the corner and ignore them for a decade? Rubbish! 14yr old boys are the product of their environment. They need to be capable swimmers, they need to take instruction and they need supervision. They can't go diving with their friends and do dumb things, this is not skateboarding.

I've seen a few 15yr old Junior OW certified divers. They weren't reckless and the didn't start at 5. I've also dived with a lot of OW courses with late teens and early 20s divers, same result. 18-20yr old men can be irresponsible but that is not-relevant if they respect the water and can keep themselves contained when they are diving. Either by a good buddy or diving as part of a club.

 

[scubadada]

Both my children learned to dive at 12 years old. Both were relatively mature and good, confident swimmers. They did just fine and became very good divers. I've been diving with my son for 23 years, with my daughter for 18 years. The whole family had the opportunity to dive together last October in Bonaire, priceless.

 

[tkaelin]

The whole family had the opportunity to dive together last October in Bonaire, priceless.

Awesome.

 

[TMHeimer]

Yes mate. I've seen a few instances of kids helping elderly grandparents, but there's also plenty of stories of parents who've collapsed and the kids call an ambulance and get them into the recovery position etc.

Some of them will have done first aid, others are being instructed by the ambulance dispatcher. Either way, kids follow instruction well, their default programming is to listen and learn. They definitely have their moments though.

I'm talking about underwater scuba emergency situations-- those where the kid or the kid's buddy adult is in a situation that can easily lead to panic for one or both.
Such situations would be very hard to observe and document since you'd have to be the kid's buddy or a 3rd diver observing it.

 

[TMHeimer]

So just park them in the corner and ignore them for a decade? Rubbish! 14yr old boys are the product of their environment. They need to be capable swimmers, they need to take instruction and they need supervision. They can't go diving with their friends and do dumb things, this is not skateboarding.

I've seen a few 15yr old Junior OW certified divers. They weren't reckless and the didn't start at 5. I've also dived with a lot of OW courses with late teens and early 20s divers, same result. 18-20yr old men can be irresponsible but that is not-relevant if they respect the water and can keep themselves contained when they are diving. Either by a good buddy or diving as part of a club.

Agree 100% with this. But again, just based on my experience with teenage boys as a school teacher. Though a majority of the students in the OW courses I assisted on were young people, many males around age 20 or so. I didn't notice any undue number of those who appeared reckless.