son wants to scuba for his 8th birthday

[60plus]

Its amazing what youngsters can learn but it does not mean they can do it properly. When my eldest son was just over 3 years old my wife on returning from a shopping trip left him in the car whilst she opened the house door. He was strapped into a child seat in the back. In less than 10 seconds he undid his seat belts, got onto the driver's seat started the car and got the car into drive. When my wife heard the car start she turned round to see car being driven away by my son standing on the seat. Fortunately he steered into the drive wall before getting onto the highway. The car was a 1988 3.6 Jaguar and unlike more modern automatics it did not have a park interlock on the foot brake.

 

[Umi-ushi]

In a pool, sure. Pretty sure PADI offers it, actually.
Open water diving? That's super dangerous. Maybe take him snorkeling?

 

[Rickk]

I grew up in the 60's in rural farming areas of Manitoba. While I was a town kid, my cousins were still on the family farm that our ancestors homesteaded 100 years before that. ( They are still there now.)

I was about 6 so my cousin was about 9. We were visiting and my cousin had undertaken to do chores at a neighbors farm, feed the chickens sort of things. He and I drove over in HIS truck, a 48 Dodge, to do the chores. He had trouble reaching the pedals so my uncle had blocks on them so he could operate the truck. Our parents, two brothers, had no issues with us driving 5 miles away, being on a farm by ourselves and driving back. Had we ventured onto the highway or into town, we still would not be able to sit down to this day.

Kids that young can do basic entry level things like drive on a country road or scuba in shallow calm water. I would no more take a sub 16 year old out in current, deep and into a overhead environment than let him drive on a freeway.

Let him dive in accordance within his abilities. Even PADI considers some bodies of natural water as confined, dive there in shallow water, jet him get his basic skills like fining and buoyancy perfected and when he is capable of more challenging environments, he will have the fundamental skills to undertake these safely. I consider helicopter parenting to be a form of child abuse. It produces entitled adults incapable of demonstrating any sort of independent judgement or to take responsibility for their actions.

I was a Scout leader for years, I saw youth that could display mature judgements at early age, sometimes better judgement than many adults. As a Scout myself, I was, at 13 years old, planning and organizing camping trips for 15 to 20 other Scouts. You know your kid, it is always best to let them explore their limits from an early age so that they will always want to extend their limits. Just as a parent, know what their limits are and ensure that they explore safely.

 

[Ukmc]

I agree with the above post and many others that insinuate that everybody is different and their readiness depends on the kid’s maturity. Assigning gradual responsibility will help them step up to the plate. My 11 year old, certified at 10. He now has 30 dives under his belt and just completed science of diving, which is really cool ( a new test is a bit easier than the ones in the past, but still really impressive). I think he could have dove at 8. My youngest on the other hand will need to go through the whole ranger program...

 

[TMHeimer]

I basically agree with the last 3 posts. Children are capable of learning an awful lot of things at a young age. I do keep beating my drum about brain development and a mature 10 year old's ability to deal with a life threatening scuba situation. I am not a neuro-scientist, so maybe I'm just throwing out there my perception that 10 year olds diving within the set guidlines, with a certified diver is somewhat risky.
I may be way off, but in comparing a "reckless" daredevil 15-16 year old vs. a mature 10 year old, I THINK I'd put my money on the teenager in a big jam.

 

[Angelo Farina]

I basically agree with the last 3 posts. Children are capable of learning an awful lot of things at a young age. I do keep beating my drum about brain development and a mature 10 year old's ability to deal with a life threatening scuba situation. I am not a neuro-scientist, so maybe I'm just throwing out there my perception that 10 year olds diving within the set guidlines, with a certified diver is somewhat risky.
I may be way off, but in comparing a "reckless" daredevil 15-16 year old vs. a mature 10 year old, I THINK I'd put my money on the teenager in a big jam.

The problem is that at 15-16 years a guy, specially a male, is reckless and feels invincible, and has a great willingness of "breaking the rules" placing himself in danger. This not only underwater, also on the road (where most accidents occurs), drinking alcohol, taking drugs, etc...
At 6 years old (which in my opinion is the optimal age to introduce children to potentially dangerous sports, again not only scuba diving, but also motocross, trial, downhill, alpine ski, water ski, surf, windsurf, free climbing, etc.) a child is very obedient and tends to follow the rules given to him.
So I followed this with my sons, introducing them very gradually to all the sports listed above, and they did learn slowly, without ever exposing them to situations beyond their capability and skilfulness.
Never had any serious accidents while practising these sports together with us.
Both instead had accidents on the road, while going to school, where danger comes from crazy (or drunk) car drivers who do not respect rules and easily pass over people on a bicycle...
So I would rate the risk of going school on a bicycle almost ten times larger than the risk of teaching your sons to scuba dive starting at 6 years...

 

[TMHeimer]

The problem is that at 15-16 years a guy, specially a male, is reckless and feels invincible, and has a great willingness of "breaking the rules" placing himself in danger. This not only underwater, also on the road (where most accidents occurs), drinking alcohol, taking drugs, etc...
At 6 years old (which in my opinion is the optimal age to introduce children to potentially dangerous sports, again not only scuba diving, but also motocross, trial, downhill, alpine ski, water ski, surf, windsurf, free climbing, etc.) a child is very obedient and tends to follow the rules given to him.
So I followed this with my sons, introducing them very gradually to all the sports listed above, and they did learn slowly, without ever exposing them to situations beyond their capability and skilfulness.
Never had any serious accidents while practising these sports together with us.
Both instead had accidents on the road, while going to school, where danger comes from crazy (or drunk) car drivers who do not respect rules and easily pass over people on a bicycle...
So I would rate the risk of going school on a bicycle almost ten times larger than the risk of teaching your sons to scuba dive starting at 6 years...

Agree with all you say.
Keep in mind that you are an extremely experienced diver and instructor, which doesn't have to be the case with many parents who dive. So a child of yours is probably as safe as any child could be diving.
I would consider the attitude of any 15-16 year old before diving with them. Obviously, there are just as many non-alcoholic driving teenagers who are "mature" as there are mature 10 year olds with less brain development.
You can wind up diving (and driving) with an immature jerk of any age.
We don't really disagree on points, but for an instabuddy I'll still take my chances with the teenager over the 10 year old.

I think neither you nor I, nor anyone else so far on this thread has a degree in human brain development and 8-12 year olds. Or how they may react in an emergency diving--perhaps as opposed to a daredevil teenager with a more developed brain. I would like to hear from real experts on this matter-- I would then know if I was correct or just blowing a lot of hot air based on my teaching career with young kids. But, perhaps we don't have anyone with those qualifications on SB who may be following this thread.
I wish I had more expertise-- my education training was very basic, touched on Piaget's theories, etc. Just enough to be a teacher and get a basic understanding of kids and they're development. A one course thing only 45 years ago.

 

[wetb4igetinthewater]

Open water diving? That's super dangerous.

Dangerous primarily in the

The problem is that at 15-16 years a guy, specially a male, is reckless and feels invincible, and has a great willingness of "breaking the rules" placing himself in danger.

From my days as a ski patroller, I'd increase that range from 15 to 25. When I was 25 and living in central California, skiing in the Sierras/Lake Tahoe region every weekend, there was an overnight storm that left over a meter of fresh snow. My friends and I thought it was the perfect opportunity to try jumping off small cliffs. The next day, my back was so tight, it took me probably half an hour to get out of bed and stand up. I learned then why so many extreme skiers are so skinny, lol.

When I was a ski patroller, most injuries I treated were males in that age range. As we get older, it takes longer and longer to recover. When I was at university, I took a sociology class as part of my breath requirement. I remember the professor saying that the reason why men are less likely to commit violent crime as they get older as they get tired of getting beat up by younger guys. lol

I conducted a try scuba with the children of a friend. Boy was about 14 at the time, girl was 11. The boy was incredibly disciplined and listened to all information and adhered to the rules. I'd say he was the exception. At his age, I was nowhere nearly as disciplined. When it comes to such exceptions, then introducing such children to scuba diving probably caries the same risk as many adults. But such children are rare. It takes both responsible (not all are) parent(s) and a responsible (again, not all are) instructor to properly evaluate a child's suitability to start diving.

 

[TMHeimer]

wetb4- I like your examples of the exceptions. I will grant that there are probably rare 10 year olds who could perform a rescue of an adult in a life threatening situation. There are also so the Young Sheldon's who are geniuses (but, could he do the rescue? Would he have the composure?). I like to think I was an exception as a teenage boy in that I can't recall ever doing anything stupid enough to really put myself in grave danger. But, I may not be recalling that 100% correctly.

 

[wetb4igetinthewater]

I like to think I was an exception as a teenage boy in that I can't recall ever doing anything stupid enough to really put myself in grave danger.

I have a few memories of being lucky to have not been seriously injured and/or killed. The closest I came to breaking my back was due to someone else (a good lesson that day). Fortunately, I bounced back from just short of serious injuries.

I proved to be a slow learner, as I continued doing stupid stuff well into my 20s. I know I wouldn't accept my younger self as a student today. I'm glad that I have a daughter, as they are much less likely to utter the phrase "hold my beer." While I haven't had other opportunities to evaluate children's suitability for diving, I have met the children of a few friends/coworkers/etc. who did strike me as actually using their ears. For me, if I were to teach a child, my start is with interviewing the parent, asking them to describe their child to me, strengths, weaknesses, interests, changes.

Removing physiological issues, a few children can start early. Sure Fabien learned from his grandfather JYC on his 4th birthday, but that isn't something I'd ever recommend. Fortunately nothing happened, but to use that as evidence as nothing ever will is simply normalization of deviance.

My daughter will certainly have to wait until she's 10 at least.