son wants to scuba for his 8th birthday

[ToneNQ]

........... I didn't notice any undue number of those who appeared reckless.

The ones that have that glint, they're the ones you keep talking to, discuss the higher level physiology considerations. You also role model a high standard of buoyancy and point out to them how that is a prerequisite skill to doing more advanced dives.

The beauty of the PADI system is that many people are goal oriented. Doing dives to build experience is tricky. But they'll do a peak performance buoyancy speciality because they get a milestone from it. Four dives is four dives, the course may not advance their skills more than just regular dives, but the course is the motivator.

 

[Angelo Farina]

So just park them in the corner and ignore them for a decade? Rubbish! 14yr old boys are the product of their environment. They need to be capable swimmers, they need to take instruction and they need supervision. They can't go diving with their friends and do dumb things, this is not skateboarding.

My opinion is mostly based on personal experience. Both I and my wife started our first diving course at 16, which in the seventies was the minimum age. The most stupid age for beginning.
In a couple of years, at 18, we were doing a number of completely stupid things, risking our lives several times. The same was for all our course mates in the same age. Many had accidents, some did die. Perhaps the seventies and the beginning of eighties was another world. We had a freedom which is impossible even to dream for our sons. But even for people now in their forties, the fabulous years were gone when they were too small to enjoy...
This is in part due to the reaction of parents. Our generation was doing a number of risky activities without any control and often with poor training an poor equipment. As said, not only underwater, but on motorbikes, with para-fly, with ski and water ski, windsurf, mountain climbing, downhill bicycles, etc.. Or simply drinking too much or getting drugs and then driving, causing road accidents.
After all these risks, and having assisted to a number of bad accidents to our friends, we did not want the same for our kids. We wanted them to arrive prepared at the risky age. Both physically and mentally.
So nowadays you see teenagers which are incredibly mature, not taking any risk and with good knowledge on how to manage danger situations and how to provide help to others.
This is definitely good and safe, albeit this deprivates our sons of some very strong experiences we had in our juvenile years.

 

[TMHeimer]

Angelo, I hear ya, but have you considered that you may have been freinds with other teens back then that did those risky things? We are in the same age range (I'm 5 years older), but the group of freinds I was with (8-10?) in my teen years didn't do any of the stuff you talk of. We played a lot of basketball, went on bike (bicycle) rides, baseball and occasionally (American) football. I don't know if it was a much "freer" time as you explain. I do think the late 60s and early 70s was a turbulent time--with expanded media coverage (of Vietnam here), "hippies", drugs, dissolusionment with political leaders (Nixon, Watergate, etc.). At least here it was definately was a time of change. Don't know if I would label it "freer".
I would have been OK staring scuba when you did at age 16 (about 1971)--certainly a lot better than I recall what I was like at age 12.
I guess you're saying it would be better for yourself back then to start scuba at age 10-12, then get through ages 14-24 in OK shape because you already had some experience from ages 10-14 and weren't starting out at age 16? That seems odd logic. Would seem better to start age 12, quit at 14, and start up again at 24?

 

[Angelo Farina]

Angelo, I hear ya, but have you considered that you may have been freinds with other teens back then that did those risky things? We are in the same age range (I'm 5 years older), but the group of freinds I was with (8-10?) in my teen years didn't do any of the stuff you talk of. We played a lot of basketball, went on bike (bicycle) rides, baseball and occasionally (American) football. I don't know if it was a much "freer" time as you explain. I do think the late 60s and early 70s was a turbulent time--with expanded media coverage (of Vietnam here), "hippies", drugs, dissolusionment with political leaders (Nixon, Watergate, etc.). At least here it was definately was a time of change. Don't know if I would label it "freer".
I would have been OK staring scuba when you did at age 16 (about 1971)--certainly a lot better than I recall what I was like at age 12.
I guess you're saying it would be better for yourself back then to start scuba at age 10-12, then get through ages 14-24 in OK shape because you already had some experience from ages 10-14 and weren't starting out at age 16? That seems odd logic. Would seem better to start age 12, quit at 14, and start up again at 24?

It is very difficult to say what should had been better for me, my brother, my wife, his wife and all our crazy friends.
Here in Europe the great change occurred in autumn 1968-spring 1969. In a couple of years, perhaps three, teenagers switched from being obedient and careful to be completely out of control...
Suddenly everything was possible: travelling, sleeping out without advising, drinking, using drugs. Sex, of course, and music. It had been certainly better to have some previous training to many risky activities which we practised. Instead we were entirely unprepared. Luckily I and my wife survived, and now many of those crazy things are nice memories.
But the idea that our two male sons could go through the same risks was simply unacceptable. So we had to choose. To allow them to practice dangerous sport and life-threatening experiences before the risky age, or keep them locked at home until they finished studying (at 24-25, typically here).
I must admit that our choice is not what 99.9% of other Italian parents did. They did keep their sons locked down until finishing the university. The sales of motorbikes dropped to 10% the number being sold in the seventies, and the same happened to all the other dangerous sports (including scuba diving). The effect of this is that now in Italy sons stay living with parents until they are 40, on average...
We made a different choice with our sons, we introduced them to dangerous activities and experiences (including alcohol) starting at 5-6 years. So we had almost 8 years for having them becoming very slowly well trained and self-reliant in all of them. Both our sons now are out of the risky years, being 25 and 29, with no major problems. So it worked for us, or perhaps they were just lucky, exactly as I and my wife were lucky when we were reckless youngsters...
Who knows? Who has all the answers? Being parents is not an easy job, you always make errors. What we wanted was to avoid repeating the same errors made by our parents. Perhaps, doing so, we made other errors...

 

[TMHeimer]

Appreciate the in depth info. I am surprised to hear that this period of freedom in '68-69 was so widespread in Europe. I was under the impression it may just be a situation with you and your freinds. Such stuff as motorbike sales, etc.
I know things were in turmoil here too then, and maybe I was just lucky to have freinds who weren't really part of that "movement". Heck in 1969 I was 15, was growing up 100 miles South of Woodstock, and actually didn't have the faintest desire to go. Maybe because I was always a classical clarinetist?
Anyway, I understand why your perspective differs from mine regarding the age divers should start.
If I were in your shoes I wouldn't start kids at 12 OR 15, but wait 'til much later (especially with the boys....).

 

[Angelo Farina]

If I were in your shoes I wouldn't start kids at 12 OR 15, but wait 'til much later (especially with the boys....).

Which is exactly what 99% of parents of our ages did...
Creating this generation of prudent youngsters, very obedient and not prone to risky activities.

 

[scubadada]

I'm three months older than Tom, my teen years were much more like Angelo's. I grew up in Southern California, perhps more like Italy. I turned out OK.

 

[Angelo Farina]

This chart shows the number of motorbikes sold each year in Italy. It tells very well where we are going....

 

[TMHeimer]

I'm three months older than Tom, my teen years were much more like Angelo's. I grew up in Southern California, perhps more like Italy. I turned out OK.

It's probably more me than you guys. My wife always says I lived under a rock. Maybe too much basketball and being oblivious?

 

[gkrane]

My oldest son got certified at age 15 and my youngest at age 10. Many dives later they are both fine.