Training can you do too much too soon?

[KevinNM]

I found deep useful because I realized I was pretty narked at 140, so I decided I don’t want to go there much.

 

[Diver0001]

Honestly, I don't see where you are going. I don't see where comparing an object (Rolex for your choice of looks) to training is pertinent.

I have no objection to AOW training. I do have objection to training like "deep diver" and "fish identification".

Way back in the day, I think I remember (from when my friend had a dive shop), there was OW certification, Dive Master and Instructor (this was back in the 80's). Now, I keep seeing PADI divide and subdivide "certifications". However, the path to instructor is OW -> AOW -> RD -> DM -> Instructor. Fish Identification isn't on that path, as aren't a bunch of other certs that are really just revenue generating for the dive shop and the organization.

You remember incorrectly. I was certified in the 1980's and the course divisions between OW, AOW, Rescue, DM and Instructor were already in place. A lot of people have made claims of dumbing down but if I made an objective comparison between the training I received in the mid 80's to the training I gave as an instructor up until very recently then there are few differences in the modularization of the courses as compared to the situation 35 years ago and in some ways some significant advances.

So my advice would be not to just jump on that band wagon. I don't see a particular need for some of the specialties either but I am not every diver. For example I've never taken a photography specialty because the last thing I see myself doing is taking photographs under water. For other people, this specialty has a lot of value.

Again I want to point out that what YOU think is valuable is not what EVERY diver thinks is valuable. PADI didn't design AOW for you, they designed it to be a cafeteria model with something that appeals to the most people possible. And just like in a cafeteria, if you see something you don't like to eat, then don't eat it.

R..

 

[RainPilot]

A lot of the non-core specialties do seem to be a "waste of time" on first glance, but I have kind of come round recently to the thinking behind them.

Example: Diver really like fish watching and so on. they are starting to get some additional info on habitats etc and are starting to dive like marine bird-watchers. However, they need some assistance in learning to identify species and understand more of what they are seeing.

Sure, a weekend with a marine biologist or even better Richard Pyle would be the ultimate, but what if they do not have access to these resources?

They want training but do not know the qualifications or experience of the person training them. How do they know if they are receiving legit info or valuable training or evn if they are getting ripped off? This is where the Fish ID specialty provides, not necessarily the best training in Fish ID, but a standardised course so the baseline is established.

Sure, there are instructors teaching specialties they have no business teaching but at least the course materials and standard should provide some backstop against instructor uselessness.

 

[leadduck]

We are open water certified
Next month going to Cozumel
We are doing Advanced open and Nitrox
And considering adding deep diver I think it only requires 3 dives because they can count the one from Advanced
Do you think this is too much to soon
I dont think it is because I will be doing it with instructors
And after getting the cards I still plan to keep most dives under 100 feet and build it up with more experience
Any advice
Thanks

No need to do all classes on one vacation trip. Keep something to look forward to for next year's vacation. There's a lot you can do with AOW alone before Deep.

How about night diving? Why You Should Experience Night Diving in Cancun and Cozumel
I don't know if the boat specialty/adventure dive is worth it, but I enjoy night diving very much.

 

[Melanie White]

No need to do all classes on one vacation trip. Keep something to look forward to for next year's vacation. There's a lot you can do with AOW alone before Deep.

How about night diving? Why You Should Experience Night Diving in Cancun and Cozumel
I don't know if the boat specialty/adventure dive is worth it, but I enjoy night diving very much.

We are doing a wreck dive
And a twilight /night 2 tank dive

 

[Steve_C]

When I started out my goal was to gain experience and not just collect the cards (except for Nitrox). I never saw the benefit of counting a dive for two different certs. I wanted more diving not less. This was early on and I did not know many other divers so I viewed more dives with an instructor as more experience. So after AOW I took the full versions of other courses including those in the AOW course. In most cases I found that with the full course there was a lot more training and more in depth than with the now this is navigation as part of AOW. The one exception to all this was Deep. I did not take the full Deep until over a 100 dives later when I started on my DM. That was just to get the card since it was the simplest way to meet that requirement. Did not learn anything. At that point I had lots of dives in the 90-100 ft range. It was a fun dive though. Since it was on a charter we treated it as a full dive based on my air and NDL. Instructor wore a 3mm with no hood or beany. I wore a hooded semidry. It was late October/November in NC. After about 30 minutes he looked so cold and miserable and he kept checking my dive computer hoping I was now low on NDL that I thumbed the dive out of sympathy. Think it took him two days to completely warm up. He and I still laugh about it.

 

[Steve_C]

Definition of a good shop: I like taking courses as long as I learn something. Was talking to the shop/charter I dive a lot with to see if they might have one that would be worthwhile (I have zero interest in tech). I asked about a couple like Fish ID and Underwater photographer. Owner told me not to bother. I was past the level of the course at least for NC dives. I appreciated the honesty.

 

[sigxbill]

I never saw the benefit of counting a dive for two different certs.

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ this ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

 

[tbone1004]

I'll disagree with the good professor @Steve_C and @sigxbill when it comes to nitrox and navigation specialties. NAUI still requires dives for nitrox diver so we have our students dive nitrox during their final OWT dives during training either in OW or AOW depending on when they got to us. There's no actual diving differences with it and we are lobbying to get rid of the dives since they're pretty pointless, but I'd say that's a reasonable exception to the rule. Overlapping nitrox with pretty much any other specialty is completely practical to me.
Another would be a navigation specialty that I can see combined with Rescue diver. A HUGE portion of our curriculum is based on the divers ability to navigate so if you do it right, combining those two courses is easy enough and I have little issue with those dives counting twice.

I'm sure there are some other reasonable/obvious overlaps that I'm not thinking of, but those are the two that I think are reasonably translated to multiple courses

 

[Steve_C]

I'll disagree with the good professor when it comes to nitrox and navigation specialties.

I was SDI until MSD and took a smattering of SDI, SSI, and PADI certs. We agree completely on Nitrox. Just needs to have a session with instructor to test the tank and chat about stuff.

Another would be a navigation specialty that I can see combined with Rescue diver. A HUGE portion of our curriculum is based on the divers ability to navigate so if you do it right, combining those two courses is easy enough and I have little issue with those dives counting twice.

I have never taken a NAUI course but that is a different universe as I understand it. You do a lot more dives during your training. My comments are within the SDI/PADI/SSI worlds where there are a small number of dives for each cert at a time where I felt more diving experience was needed. Your comments make sense for NAUI as I understand NAUI.