Training can you do too much too soon?

[Melanie White]

To me, a lot of these certifications are nothing more than a revenue generator for the dive shops and the agencies. When you do your AOW, you should be certified to 120' depth. This only means that a USA dive op isn't liable if you have an accident that is by your doing.

I would get the AOW and Nitrox, and then think about Rescue Diver. RD is physically challenging, so I would do it sooner than later (I wish I had done mine before I turned 50). If you want to proceed from there (DM, Instructor), that's up to you. Rescue is about as far as I am going to go.

I'm getting my Nitrox certification in CZM this November. P3 is good enough to throw in two free nitrox tanks as part of the certification. I suspect you're getting the same deal.

We are going to Scuba club Cozumel
they include 2 dives as part of Nitrox

 

[Snoweman]

We are going to Scuba club Cozumel
they include 2 dives as part of Nitrox

I suspect once one shop started doing it, they all did.

 

[Diver0001]

To me, a lot of these certifications are nothing more than a revenue generator for the dive shops and the agencies.

A business.... ANY business, can't sell a product if it doesn't have at least a perceived value to the customer.

YOU may not see that value but that does not mean that all divers are like you.

For example, I wouldn't buy a Rolex watch if I had a million dollars. I have a watch that I paid 200 dollars for that synchronizes with an atomic clock and charges the battery with sunlight... and is also waterproof to 200m. For me, THOSE features have value. In every measurable way my watch is better than a Rolex .... to me. Because I value the things I bought it for.

I could literally not give a rat's patoot if someone thought more of me because I spent a small fortune on a watch or if they think less of me because of the watch I have. I'm not sensitive to "image". I'm sensitive to "function". However, for someone who IS sensitive to image they may want the Rolex because of what other people may think and they may not care that there are watches on the market with far superior features.

The EXACT same thing is true in scuba training. Your objection to the AOW course is your opinion based upon your own norms. Divers with other back grounds will find significant value in the same course.

See where I'm going with this?

R..

 

[Snoweman]

A business.... ANY business, can't sell a product if it doesn't have at least a perceived value to the customer.

YOU may not see that value but that does not mean that all divers are like you.

For example, I wouldn't buy a Rolex watch if I had a million dollars. I have a watch that I paid 200 dollars for that synchronizes with an atomic clock and charges the battery with sunlight... and is also waterproof to 200m. For me, THOSE features have value. In every measurable way my watch is better than a Rolex .... to me. Because I value the things I bought it for.

I could literally not give a rat's patoot if someone thought more of me because I spent a small fortune on a watch or if they think less of me because of the watch I have. I'm not sensitive to "image". I'm sensitive to "function". However, for someone who IS sensitive to image they may want the Rolex because of what other people may think and they may not care that there are watches on the market with far superior features.

The EXACT same thing is true in scuba training. Your objection to the AOW course is your opinion based upon your own norms. Divers with other back grounds will find significant value in the same course.

See where I'm going with this?

R..

Honestly, I don't see where you are going. I don't see where comparing an object (Rolex for your choice of looks) to training is pertinent.

I have no objection to AOW training. I do have objection to training like "deep diver" and "fish identification".

Way back in the day, I think I remember (from when my friend had a dive shop), there was OW certification, Dive Master and Instructor (this was back in the 80's). Now, I keep seeing PADI divide and subdivide "certifications". However, the path to instructor is OW -> AOW -> RD -> DM -> Instructor. Fish Identification isn't on that path, as aren't a bunch of other certs that are really just revenue generating for the dive shop and the organization.

 

[60plus]

I think its not just about your ability, its about the ability of those you dive with. I am not saying the following is right or wrong, its just my present opinion. If I am in a small lake with plenty of other divers / swimmers about I am happy to solo dive at about 10m with the odd look a bit deeper. At the hint of anything going wrong I can be at the surface. In the sea I will dive to 15 to 18m so long as I have a reasonable buddy (even an instabuddy) who stays close and is attentive. If anything goes wrong the buddy should be able to help and the surface is not too far away. Deeper than about 15m I want to know my buddy is really competent and can be trusted.
I feel PADI AOW is overpriced. BSAC sport diver is probably a better qualification.

 

[flyboy08]

I suspect once one shop started doing it, they all did.

I’ve said it before, I’ll say it again right here...ProDive offers free Nitrox if you Dive with them! And I will be in three weeks

 

[sigxbill]

I do have objection to training like "deep diver" and "fish identification". The path to instructor is OW -> AOW -> RD -> DM -> Instructor. Fish Identification isn't on that path, as aren't a bunch of other certs that are really just revenue generating for the dive shop and the organization.

Assuming that following the path to instructor is the path to develop diver skills is the biggest fallacy that shops promote, IMHO. The professional path, RD, DM, Inst, doesn't develop diving skills; it develops skills to teach, guide, and sell to more OW divers! If the goal is to become a skilled diver, AOW->RD->DM-Inst is not the path to take. If OW instructor is the goal, then jump right in to this progression ...

 

[TMHeimer]

Agree that the pro path isn't the best path to develop diver skills, but they are helpful. RD in that you learn specific safety procedures, including self rescue. And DM because you are forced to get your "20 pool demo skills" (or whatever number there are now) up to demonstration quality. Not gunna make you a great diver, but certainly can't hurt. Another very old topic.

 

[TMHeimer]

we'll have to agree to disagree on that. There is a difference in surviving and executing scuba dives independently, and a difference in intending on diving alone or with dive ops. I would argue heavily that most divers are trained with the intent of diving with dive operations as opposed to conducting dives on their own. Not a bad thing, just a thing

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I don't think we really disagree. Maybe semantics. I mean, if you are at a shore site with a buddy (both newbies or whatever) and there are other divers around, that doesn't mean your doing anything much different than if you were the only two there. Most likely if you're in trouble UW (or on surface) it is unlikely the others will be near you two to help.
Same with a boat. All charters in U.S. and Canada I've been on were buddy teams with instructions on when to return, etc., but diving on their own--though there most likely would be others circling around the wreck as well. As opposed to DM lead dives where a "group" of buddies follow the DM--something I've only been part of once and not a fan.
I guess there are degrees of independence. But I always assumed from the start that I was being trained to dive (in a buddy pair, I guess) without anyone else around.

 

[KevinNM]

Thank you
Where we are going Nitrox requires 2 dives with Nitrox but I'm cool with that I'm hoping those 2 can count towards deep diver also

You’ll exceed MOD (maximum operating depth) of typical nitrox mixes on the deep dives. The depth of 1.6 ata O2 of your gas fill is a critical value you need to know if you use a mix other than air. And in general, 1.3-1.4 is a better place to be.