Ordered Light from LDS. Two months later still hasn't arrived

[lessthanjoey]

As we said before, charge back through credit card company. This is outrageous.

Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk

 

[The Chairman]

I fully understand your reticence for posting the shop's name. You don't want to hurt them, even when they've screwed up. Follow your conscience on this, but also realize that there are no rules forbidding you from calling them out.

Shops, are often their own worst enemy. That goes for online and traditional ones as well. Make it easy for us to buy from you and watch us buy even more. Pull these kinds of Shenanigans and we'll find another place that wants us and our money.

 

[KeithG]

That's not the whole story though. There's also often a "handling fee" or "brokerage fee," which is charged by the carrier and varies wildly between carriers. Some charge a flat $50 per parcel, independent of the value of the item, or other ridiculous charges. This is why it can be easier and cheaper to have the item delivered to a location across the border and then you go and pick it up yourself, even if you properly go through the customs process and pay the duty. Downside is that you may end up paying taxes twice if the delivery location is in the same state as the original seller.

Not for USPS / Canada Post. No extra fee. No handling fee. Because "it's the government". https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Universal_Postal_Union

Fedex, UPS, Purolator, DHS,..Tony's Midnight Delivery... are all free to toss in any extra services charges they want. And they do. As often as they can. That is why I was specific to mention USPS / Canada Post as my preferred carrier.

---------- Post added September 17th, 2015 at 10:36 PM ----------

I'm not sure how using the service makes anybody a smuggler... As long as you delcare everything and have the reciept there's nothing illegal about it.

Agreed.
Any guesses about what percentage of "same day" border crossers are maybe a little less than truthful? I used to live in the Soo and the customs people would tear your car apart if you came back from Soo Mich during the day and did not claim something. If you waited until closing time and risked driving back with all the drunks they simply waved you through.

In some cases the international rates are higher than the duty you'd pay at the border, in other cases you can get "Free shipping anywhere in the US" and use this system to avoid shipping costs altogether.

Except typical gas costs will kill anything you saved. Slow delivery international rates are marginally higher. For me sending stuff, small package with tracking number in Canada is $25, small package US to $30. Costs do escalate for super fast delivery, so I never choose that option. Slowest delivery that also has a tracking number for me. Volume supplier is the US often ship small packages fro less than $15 or even free - all the way to Canada.

I have never yet run into a real situation that would pay me to drive 3 hours each way to the border.

 

[redacted]

Just called the shop.

Said they would have it 3 days ago. Still do not have it.

Told ad the person who answered the phone that I want my cash back.
He said he couldn't do it.

What at should I do if I go there and they don't have the light or they do have it.

Do they have to give me the money back even if they have it there.

Originally they said no, now they might.

Do do I have to accept the light.

Didn't seem to to care it was never there.

If you payed them cash, then they have you over a barrel. I guess you could try to take it through your court system but that is probably a very difficult process. Your other leverage is their reputation. It is fairly clear from this thread that the diving public would not support your shops actions. I suggest you talk to them about this thread and advise them that if they can not conclude this matter in a satisfactory manner you will have to warn other divers of their inadequate service.

Next time use a credit card.

 

[The Chairman]

I suggest you talk to them about this thread and advise them that if they can not conclude this matter in a satisfactory manner you will have to warn other divers of their inadequate service.

I have no problem with anyone pointing a shop (or shops) to a thread discussing them nor do I have a problem with people revealing shops they have a problem with. However, please don't use SB like club to get your way. If there's any inkling of a shop being cyber black mailed in this manner, I'll shut the thread down quicker than anything. I've pissed off a number of people intent on exacting revenge by deleting their thread(s) and I don't enjoy it. I'm a big believer in 'fair'.

 

[redacted]

I have no problem with anyone pointing a shop (or shops) to a thread discussing them nor do I have a problem with people revealing shops they have a problem with. However, please don't use SB like club to get your way. If there's any inkling of a shop being cyber black mailed in this manner, I'll shut the thread down quicker than anything. I've pissed off a number of people intent on exacting revenge by deleting their thread(s) and I don't enjoy it. I'm a big believer in 'fair'.

I'm not sure that the two sides of the coin that you present are not mutually incompatible. The truth is the club and SB provides the paper. Call it cyber blackmail, call it a critical service review if you like; but the end result is no different. Bad dive shops would like SB much more if you prohibit or delete the threads that report their poor service.

 

[The Chairman]

I'm not sure that the two sides of the coin that you present are not mutually incompatible. The truth is the club and SB provides the paper. Call it cyber blackmail, call it a critical service review if you like; but the end result is no different. Bad dive shops would like SB much more if you prohibit or delete the threads that report their poor service.

It's a matter of intent. I always cringe when I see an "if you don't do X, I will disparage you on SB!" statement. I, especially, have to be wary that I don't inadvertently do such a thing. That's probably why I only post positive experiences now or I simply don't post. I have seen the exact worded hurtful 'review' make the rounds on the forums and on FB. It becomes obvious that they are out to exact their pound of flesh and we take measures to ameliorate that kind of behavior here. It's a judgement call and one we don't take lightly. No, it's not always popular, but then being fair is often the hard way to go. I'm just glad that it doesn't rear it's ugly head here very often. Obviously, the OP in this case has been far more than fair. I really appreciate that.

 

[gr8jab]

I had a similar problem with a new camera from a LDS. The difference was that each time I contacted them, they apologized and offered a complete refund. Since they were so transparent, I stuck with it and eventually got my camera. I still shop there.

You've taken the high road so far, and I commend you for it. However, they have to realize that poor customer service has consequences. At some point, naming them and giving them a bad review is not retribution, but rather helping other potential customers avoid the same bad experience.

Don't forget, there are more avenues than just SB. If I were the OP, and I had given them ample opportunity to rectify the situation without success, I would:

1. Identify any local scuba clubs, who always seem to have a facebook/webpage/email type service.
2. Identify any online presence the shop has:
   1. Facebook
   2. Email marketing where they don't 'hide' the distribution list (which is common).
3. Identify any non-LDS affiliated dive locals:
   1. independent instructors
   2. independent institutions with scuba class (like community colleges)
   3. boat captains or dive site operators
4. Identify local or international business associations
   1. Better Business Bureau
   2. Chamber of Commerce
   3. PADI / NAUI / SSI
5. Find a local TV or newspaper 'on your side' investigative reporter(s).

I would then write a letter to the LDS. Accurately describe the situation with as many facts and little emotion as possible. Include what action the LDS should have done to resolve the situation. Then close the letter with the following:

"If you dispute any of the facts described in this letter, please contact be me before October 1, 2015. I wish to be completely accurate when I distribute this information to the recipients listed below."

Then, I would list everyone I found in steps 1-5, including contact email/web/address/phone information for each.

I don't consider this blackmail. I consider it warning them of a pending review you plan to share, and some simple fact-checking.

 

[redacted]

It's a matter of intent. I always cringe when I see an "if you don't do X, I will disparage you on SB!" statement. I, especially, have to be wary that I don't inadvertently do such a thing. That's probably why I only post positive experiences now or I simply don't post. I have seen the exact worded hurtful 'review' make the rounds on the forums and on FB. It becomes obvious that they are out to exact their pound of flesh and we take measures to ameliorate that kind of behavior here. It's a judgement call and one we don't take lightly. No, it's not always popular, but then being fair is often the hard way to go. I'm just glad that it doesn't rear it's ugly head here very often. Obviously, the OP in this case has been far more than fair. I really appreciate that.

Yes, there can be an attitude displayed in a post.

But, other than an underlying attitude, I don't see much difference in telling a shop "if you don't do X, I will disparage you on SB!" and "I don't like giving you bad PR but if we can't come to a reasonable conclusion, I do feel an obligation to warn my fellow divers."

If all anybody wanted was positive feedback, Skin Diver would still be on newsstand shelves.

 

[jringold]

If I am looking at the right one, at least you don't have a truck load of money tied up in this. My method would be that if I am not going to get my light then I am going to get some entertainment for my money. As such, I would do everything I can to give the LDS owner a total headache. I'd start with daily emails and phone calls. After a while they will tire of that. So then I would make frequent visits to the store. Sort of hard to ignore you when you are standing in their showroom. I would show up at a busy time. While being respectful and without great emotion I would have conversations in front of other customers about the undelivered merchandise. You don't want to go 'postal' because then you just look like a raving idiot that the store has to deal with. If you are professional in your manner, then you get your point across. I'd then post their name and the issue on a few sites and then email a link to the site review to them. Essentially you make a pest of yourself so that at some point, the store either delivers or cuts their losses and gives you your money back to just go away - either case, you win. I once tried to make a return to a jewelry store and the owner would not fix the item nor refund my money. In front of customers I calmly said ok, excuse me while I make a call. In front of him and his customers I pulled out my cell phone. He asked who I was calling. I stated that I was calling American Express. He immediately took the ring back and repaired it. I didn't "get out of the box" nor did I get emotional. But he 1) didn't want a hassle from AmEx and 2) have his other customers hear me putting a purchase in dispute.

Anyway, just an idea. The big thing is don't let it drop - that is most likely what they are hoping you will do. That you will be the one to 'cut your losses'.

Good luck. Please keep us updated on the outcome. I love "underdog" stories.