Deaths at Eagles Nest - Homosassa FL

[lv2dive]

There is a large OW area and the cave entrance is all but impossible to "unwillingly fall through." There are pictures of the son in a cave on Facebook, and pictures of the father and son in doubles with a stage in Hogarthian-like setup, so it is pretty clear (to me, anyway) that they intended to go into the cave.

I feel for their family but I am truly incensed that the father had the cojones to think he should risk his own - let alone his son's - life, by going into a cave without proper training. I have friends who are full cave, hypoxic-trimix trained, who are building up to Eagle's Nest! And this guy takes his son, who isn't OW certified, into that environment!

Freedom to make stupid decisions has to stop somewhere, when children are involved. This kid didn't look like he was shaving yet.

For those of us not familiar with this site at all, if an ow student fails to keep buoyancy, how easy is it for him/her to unwillingly fall through the restriction? Over here, in this part of the world, we have shore dive sites where you get into a 300ft + walls after taking just a couple of steps into the water. You don't take divers with minimal or no experience to these sites and hope they will be able to stop descent at 60 ft.

 

[Texas Torpedo]

I know this has been going on for decades, and I shouldn't be surprised at all, but I just can't get over how people so willfully disregard these warning signs. I assume the kid was doing the ultimate trust-me-dive because the father said it was perfectly safe and he'd take care of him but who the hell told / taught the father it was ok to disregard all the deaths that preceded his own proverbial notch on the post of the warning sign?? Trained there? Escorted there previously by someone he respected? Or just a stupid fool that made it further down life's path than he should have and ended up killing his own kid in the process of getting his darwin award?

It is sad but I'm with kwinter.. I'm angry for all the same reasons.

 

[Ayisha]

There's no way that water with a hole in the bottom that leads into an overhead is appropriate for OW class. I don't have the patience to go through all the standards, but I beleive a hard bottom is a requirement, and a "hard bottom with a hole" wouldn't qualify.

I've scratched my head at the way that standard is interpreted. Around here there are some wrecks that are in 110 or so feet of water (used to be 120 feet with higher water levels years ago), but some instructors take AOW students there. When I ask how that meets the standard of a hard bottom of no more than 100 feet, they say they don't take them to the deepest part. I have also heard of AOW dives on the Spiegel Grove, which, IIRC, is around 130 fsw.

So does it meet the standard of a hard bottom if PART of the bottom is within the maximum or does the maximum depth have to be within the 100 feet? Since many courses would be shore dives in an ocean, large lake, etc., this would be pretty hard to do if none of the body of water could be beyond the hard bottom depth.

I realize this unfortunate tragedy involved an O/W diver and his uncertified son, and was not a course, but the appropriateness of this site for o/w training, where former students would likely come back to, seems to be a valid question.

 

[JahJahwarrior]

If a father with a drivers license took his 15 year old son who doesn't even have a learners permit to the Nascar 500 course and they each raced at 200 mph and crashed and died, what would we say?

I knew a diver who didn't have his cave cert, who died in a cave. I knew he was in caves. I thought he was diving with a cave instructor. I was wrong. If I had known he was not with an instructor, I would have said something. Somewhere, someone knew this father was recklessly endangering a child's life, and didn't say a thing.

A tragedy, and a darn shame.

Edit:I realized that someone might have said something but the advice or concern might have been ignored. If so, I pray that person doesn't regret a single word, and knows that they did their best to prevent a foolish father from killing a trusting son. There is no way to sugarcoat irresponsible and careless actions, but we must also respect the lives of the deceased and those left behind.

 

[lv2dive]

We all interpret things differently. Sometimes we read for permission when we're seeking permission. But there's this tidbit on the web: Eagle's Nest ...

Well at least for today that tidbit got pulled down. Wonder how long it will be before it is up again.

 

[tursiops]

I don't know where this "hard bottom" information in OW training is coming from. At least, there is no requirement in either the PADI or the SDI or the RSTC standards for a "hard bottom" except in shallow water ("stand up if necessary") training. Also, "confined water" is not required to have "sides"....just swimming-pool like conditions of clarity, depth, and calmness. Eagles Nest would seem to qualify for OW training, if access to the site is permitted for such purposes. I see no agency restrictions disallowing it.

Not that it is a good idea, for many of the reasons enumerated in earlier posts. Just don't say "it violates training standards."

 

[debajo agua]

Two words: Ginnie Springs! Thousands of o/w divers go into overhead every year @ Ginnie Springs!



Good point, I commend you on seeking out further training so you can further and deeper. I hope you keep your humility and never die in a cave. If you do, who shall we blame?

 

[Tegg]

EZ Scuba dropped their Eagles Nest page... It's still linked on their main site page... Interesting on the timing of this...

Google Cached Version : Eagle's Nest

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

There is a large OW area and the cave entrance is all but impossible to "unwillingly fall through." There are pictures of the son in a cave on Facebook, and pictures of the father and son in doubles with a stage in Hogarthian-like setup, so it is pretty clear (to me, anyway) that they intended to go into the cave.

I feel for their family but I am truly incensed that the father had the cojones to think he should risk his own - let alone his son's - life, by going into a cave without proper training. I have friends who are full cave, hypoxic-trimix trained, who are building up to Eagle's Nest! And this guy takes his son, who isn't OW certified, into that environment!

Freedom to make stupid decisions has to stop somewhere, when children are involved. This kid didn't look like he was shaving yet.

I'm about to say something very politically incorrect ... so if there are friends or family of the victims following this thread, for your own peace of mind, please do no read this reply any further.

This situation sounds to me like a whole new category of Darwin Award ... not only remove your genes from the gene pool, but retroactively remove those you've already produced.

Sorry to sound so callous about it, but clearly this dad was so far beyond irresponsible that a fatality was only a matter of time. It's a shame it had to happen on Christmas day, and ruin the day for the people who had to go in and recover the bodies. It's also a shame this idiot killed his own son in the process.

Irresponsible people just shouldn't dive ... especially not in caves ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[boulderjohn]

There's no way that water with a hole in the bottom that leads into an overhead is appropriate for OW class. I don't have the patience to go through all the standards, but I beleive a hard bottom is a requirement, and a "hard bottom with a hole" wouldn't qualify.

I've scratched my head at the way that standard is interpreted. Around here there are some wrecks that are in 110 or so feet of water (used to be 120 feet with higher water levels years ago), but some instructors take AOW students there. When I ask how that meets the standard of a hard bottom of no more than 100 feet, they say they don't take them to the deepest part. I have also heard of AOW dives on the Spiegel Grove, which, IIRC, is around 130 fsw.

I don't know where this "hard bottom" information in OW training is coming from. At least, there is no requirement in either the PADI or the SDI or the RSTC standards for a "hard bottom" except in shallow water ("stand up if necessary") training.

Tursiops is correct. There is no requirement for a hard bottom for training dives in any agency I know of. Every day thousands of divers around the world are certified in ocean waters deeper than the maximum allowed depth for their training. It is up to the instructor to make sure the students do not go deeper than allowed.

---------- Post added December 26th, 2013 at 12:49 PM ----------

... certified cave divers die in caves too!

Yes, they do.

I am unable to find the statistics right now, but I read recently that over the past 4-5 years, nearly half of the people who die in caves were cave certified. People whose understanding of statistics borders on the level commonly called "imbecilic" would argue that means certified divers are just as likely to die in caves as non-certified divers. That would only be true, though, if certified and uncertified divers were going into the caves in equal numbers. It is, however, pretty rare to find uncertified divers who, like you, do not respect the danger of caves. There are no accurate statistics for this, but it would not surprise me to learn that 98% of the people diving in caves are appropriately certified. That means that only a very tiny percentage of certified divers die in caves, while a very high percentage of uncertified divers die in caves.

If you look at the overall death rate in Germany, you will find that the overwhelming majority of them are German citizens. Do you think that proves that it is more dangerous to be a German citizen in Germany than a non-citizen?