I'm just genuinely curious as to whether you think there's a binary distinction between the two that turns on possession of specific c-cards, which I would find laughable but unsurprising given what I've seen in this thread... or, whether you're willing to acknowledge that who's really in the right/wrong if the 'you're arrogant for putting potential rescuers at risk by doing risky dives!' argument is valid is about as clear as the water behind Britton's fins.
Are you genuinely curious? I had the impression you were setting bait. I'll take you at your word, then, and offer a response.
I really only see the posters claiming "I don't need no frickin' cards" to be making the black and white arguments. I haven't noticed any particular reference to "specific c-cards" but rather to the need for training before entering caves. When we view those videos, it becomes painfully apparent that the divers performing these dives lack this training and despite having survived the dives, were not diving safely. We also see the diver who has posted these videos claiming that as an adventurer, she is in her right to do as she pleases, all the while making the same black and white argument. I prefer to see her as "blissfully ignorant" rather than "willfully egotistical" and to attribute her arrogance to cluelessness rather than to vanity. And on that basis, I would recommend actual training rather than "guidance."
I also see a lot of people claiming that training is obtainable without formal instruction, to which I would agree. But the possession of a c-card for a particular style of diving certifies that the diver has at the very least received training according agreed-upon standards, has been assessed according to agreed-upon criteria, and has performed satisfactorily in the practical application of the training to actual dives. Not holding a card doesn't necessarily mean that the diver doesn't know what s/he's doing, but we have no way of even starting to create any expectations in regard to that diver's skill. When we see a diver with a card, it gives us a baseline for developing our expectations for that diver's preparedness to do the dive in question.
Binary? Not at all. Among those who have the training, some will be in a different developmental stage than others, and even highly accomplished divers can be guilty of errors of judgment that get them into trouble. Nevertheless, it is reasonable to expect divers certified to do the dives they propose to be prepared to do them while we cannot reasonably have the same expectations of those who are not certified. When we add further information such as the number of similar dives undertaken, frequency of diving under similar conditions, etc., we can form an even clearer picture on which to base our expectations of the certified diver's preparedness for the dive--we can say "have a good dive" or we can say "your training and experience haven't prepared you for the conditions you'll meet" or we can say "you should consider doing a refresher" or we can make some other recommendation altogether according to whatever point in the spectrum we perceive the diver to be at.
And that brings us right back to the larger question in the thread regarding diving beyond one's training.
---------- Post added December 14th, 2012 at 12:18 PM ----------
Oh - Quero......The rules I posted are in direct response to the first person who commented on our Paradise Springs video and he specifically said he knew we'd been on his website, so he knew we'd seen the rules. These rules are somewhat of a joke because they are obvious...I know there are many other general rules of cave diving and I am quite familiar with them...See...a prime example of "you don't know what you don't know" or "what others do know". We don't all wear badges or resumes showing just what amount of knowledge we have about any given area. This is precisely my point about people passing judgement on others when they don't have any idea what experience they may have, whether it be official certifying experience or life experiences...it comes in all shapes and sizes.
Here's Florida Dive Connection's first response to your Paradise video:
This is a well done video but it's a shame these two divers broke so many rules of this dive site and cave and cavern diving in general while risking their lives to shoot it.
Here's what you wrote in your blog:
Just for the record. These are the rules that our YouTube fan insists we all broke and you can see below that I’ve checked them all off. We didn’t violate anything....
Those rules you cite by way of that illustration in your response are not the rules that Florida Dive Connection was referring to. In fact in regard to the rules he mentions--those of the site and those of cave/cavern diving--you broke the rule of the dive site in progressing beyond the STOP sign. You didn't stop even though the sign specifically states that if you don't have the training you must turn around at that point. You didn't turn around; you kept going. You broke numerous rules of cave and cavern diving. You did violate the rules and yet you not only don't seem to recognize the fact, but you flat out say, and I quote, that you "didn't violate anything." Furthermore, you say about the rules of cave diving that "I am quite familiar with them." If this is true, you consciously chose to violate them anyway, and that being the case, there is really not much else to say other than that I hope you take James up on his very generous offer.
