A compassionate instructor

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The student to instructor ratio is 8 to 1. With an additional 2 students per Divecon up to a maximum of 12 students. The standards are mute on the subject of the instructor supervising more than 1 activity at a time.

Actually for PADI it is specifed there was an update due to people combining DSD and Certified divers on Open Water dives and they now state that when mixing any class you take the lowest ratio.

Also i think what we have learned from this is thus
"rule were broken he should not have done it"
But what some of us want to say
"yay for the Instructor for being human"

After all, you could have taken you son diving in the sea by yourself and not been breaking any laws!
 
My son's safety was never in doubt.

1. Junior is 11, not 8. He is of age to take the training.
2. Over the past few months, I have drilled him in diving safety rules. He knows never to hold his breath while on compressed air. He knows to ascend slowly.
3. The instructor has seen Junior snorkeling and knows of his comfort level in the water. In the instructor's own words, "The boy has gills." If there had been any doubt as to Junior's safety, either on my part or the instructor's, the event never would have happened.

I don't know how it is in other states, but here in the mountains of West Virginia our boys (and some girls) wander the woods with loaded firearms (gasp!) hunting whitetail deer, bear, turkey, squirrels, etc.; they ride four wheelers and motorcycles over forest roads; they canoe and kayak down mountain rivers and race their mountain bikes over some of the most rugged terrain in the eastern US. A few miles away, there is a small grass airstrip where ultralight pilots gather to fly and socialize. A few of those pilots are under 15 years of age. The youngest is a girl of 13. We don't hold our children back out of fear. We let them live. We teach them what they need to know to survive and encourage them to embrace life to the fullest. I read somewhere that West Virginia has produced more Medal of Honor winners than any other state in the Union. If true, this does not surprise me in the least.

I honestly do not understand the nitpicking that has been going on here. The "standards" that some of you keep referring to are not laws. They are guidelines; nothing more. If they were laws, then every agency would have precisely the same set of "standards." The truth is, dive training agencies came to be as primarily profit-oriented business operations. The c-card requirement by LDS operators is to protect the agencies' bottom line. If new divers learned to dive the way new drivers learn to drive a two or three ton automobile, the agencies' profit margins would decline. As an indicator of acquired skills, a c-card means bupkiss. Some of the worst, most inept divers I have encountered could proudly boast a wallet full of cards, while many of the best divers I have ever had the pleasure of diving with were not certified by any agency and had seldom, if ever, even set foot in a dive shop.

I was Junior's age when I began SCUBA diving. I was trained by an experienced (uncertified) diver who taught me the way he had learned in the Navy. We had no pool. Everything was done in open water. I dived for more than a decade without the need for a c-card. I did light underwater salvage work (sunken pleasure boats and, in one case, a floatplane); helped search for drowning victims; cleaned freshwater mussels from inlet pipes and too many other things to mention here. The only reason I finally obtained my first c-card was because my mentor passed away and I no longer had access to his compressor. I got my present OWD c-card simply because that by 1992 the parameters of my original Basic Scuba Diver certification had changed and had become too restrictive. The irony of it all is that I have never even been asked to show it.

You want to play the "what if..?" game?

Okay. What if, while driving on the interstate, a professional truck driver falls asleep and crosses the median to hit my truck head on with a combined speed of 140 mile per hour?

What if an inattentive/distracted driver runs a stop sign and hits my son on his bicycle?

What if the chemical plant a couple of miles away blows up, sending toxic gasses wafting over our city?

What if natural gas main ruptures and explodes, taking our neighborhood with it?

What if a jet airliner, taking off from the airport, has a major malfunction and crashes into our house?

The "what if...?" game can be applied to literally every aspect of daily life. One can either accept the fact that life is not entirely safe and secure and get on with living or one can hide under the bed in fear and hope that nothing happens.

I'm too big to hide under a bed, so I choose to face life head on.

I will not back down in my certainty of the rightness of my decision to let my son try SCUBA and if I have the opportunity, I would do it again. I have nothing but admiration and gratitude for the instructor who set it up. You can criticize and nitpick all you like. That is your right. This is still a free country (at least for a while, until Obama and his cronies get through with it). But my position will not change.

I would offer up the old adage about walking a mile in my shoes, but if anyone ever took my shoes and tried to walk away, he wouldn't make it out of rifle range.

This is the last I will have to say on this matter. If you guys want to continue batting this ball back and forth, go to it. I got other fish to fry.
 
I honestly do not understand the nitpicking that has been going on here.
You must be new here ... there are things I simply don't post on ScubaBoard anymore because I got tired of being judged by all the 50-dive "experts".

Another SB regular recently posted a report of taking his son on a dive, and I couldn't believe the judgmental posts he had to endure.

You want to play the "what if..?" game?

Okay. What if, while driving on the interstate, a professional truck driver falls asleep and crosses the median to hit my truck head on with a combined speed of 140 mile per hour?

What if an inattentive/distracted driver runs a stop sign and hits my son on his bicycle?

What if the chemical plant a couple of miles away blows up, sending toxic gasses wafting over our city?

What if natural gas main ruptures and explodes, taking our neighborhood with it?

What if a jet airliner, taking off from the airport, has a major malfunction and crashes into our house?

The "what if...?" game can be applied to literally every aspect of daily life. One can either accept the fact that life is not entirely safe and secure and get on with living or one can hide under the bed in fear and hope that nothing happens.

I'm too big to hide under a bed, so I choose to face life head on.

According to an article in yesterday's New York Times your son is in more danger from your municipal drinking water supply than he is from scuba diving activities ... such is life.

I envy your son the memories he and you are creating together.

... Bob (Grateful Diver)
 
As an indicator of acquired skills, a c-card means bupkiss. Some of the worst, most inept divers I have encountered could proudly boast a wallet full of cards, while many of the best divers I have ever had the pleasure of diving with were not certified by any agency and had seldom, if ever, even set foot in a dive shop.

If that's the case, why was your older son even taking a class with an Instructor? If a C-card means "bupkiss" and you know divers who can get air fills without a C-card, what's the point of your son taking an Instructor-led class?:shakehead:
 
If that's the case, why was your older son even taking a class with an Instructor? If a C-card means "bupkiss" and you know divers who can get air fills without a C-card, what's the point of your son taking an Instructor-led class?:shakehead:

Maybe he's confident that the instructor that he chose to teach his son would teach a quality class and his son would end up being a very good diver at the end of the class.
 
mkutyna, you hit the nail square on the head.
 
My son's safety was never in doubt.
I don't think I've seen anyone say that. The situation itself doesn't really "concern" me. It seems a lot safer than even a Discover Scuba would have been.

However, there are some elements here that could get some people in trouble. What the instructor did was nice, but if I was the owner of the dive shop I would have told him that if he ever did it again, he would never work for the shop again (probably after consulting with a lawyer).

Sound harsh? Threatening to fire somebody for being nice? Of course it does. But if this is happening in my pool (not sure if this was a pool owned by the dive shop) or even during a class an instructor I've hired is putting on, possibly using my dive gear, the potential liability of this situation would scare the crap out of me. Not only could I lose the dive shop, unless I've incorporated the unlimited liability means I could lose my house, my car, be forced to declare bankruptcy, etc. Everyone likes to see children smile, but I would not be willing to pay this price, especially when there are sanctioned programs available that would at least give me a much better defense if something happened. Now I hope I'd have insurance, but would they try to deny coverage because this happened outside of a class or something? Even if they did cover it, would my insurance rates go through the roof? The whole situation would scare me.

Maybe I'm paranoid, but I've personally known a man who sued (and won) against a family more or less for negligence, and the whole thing was a direct result of them doing him a favour. And this was in Canada, the US is generally worse.
 
Canuck, perhaps you missed one little detail that I mentioned earlier. At the request of the shop's owner, I signed the Discover Scuba liability waiver authorizing my son's participation in the activities.

Besides, unlike some states (except for specific cases involving gross child abuse or neglect) under our state law, parental authority trumps virtually everything else. I was in the water with him, therefore I held the ultimate authority and responsibility.
 
Paladin,
That was a great story. Thanks for sharing.
Ken
 
Having read the first few posts and a sampling between than and now I think the tread title sums it up well.

1. The instructor apparently thought enough of Paladin954's abilities to take this chance.
2. Paladin954 had enough confidence to sign the waiver and accept the consequences.
3. The youngster had significant time in the water and I'll assume was already quite comfortable in that environment.
4. The youngster had 1:1 attention, something most adult divers (who may already be in a frightened state) generally do not have.
5. This could have been a life or death situation (at the extreme).
6. For heavens sake we will all die so let's be sure to live first.

Let's not beat our chests about standards violations. While there are some "by the book and beyond" trainers out there there are far more that deviate in a deficient manner. This situation was more controlled than when the kid was waiting for the school bus the next Monday morning.

Granted, I don't know any of the individual involved but that's my take on the episode.

Lucky kid!

Pete
 
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