Error A Story of Poor Judgment

[sharkhugger]

It SHOULD be the entire spirit of dive instruction: to introduce and guide people to safely enjoy the underwater world. But should is a dangerous word. There are many shoulds/should nots in this world.

I think the industry could do a heck of a lot more for dive safety. In my area, there was a dive center that had 4 training deaths! The agency didn't do anything Fortunately it is now closed here, but unfortunatley the owner/course director relocated to Mexico. For another agency, a friend of mine reported the repeated dangerous violations at the dive center he worked. I've heard shite stories about pretty much all agencies from friends "living the dream" in different parts of the world Nothing happens most of the time.

As a business owner, I sometimes see egregious lack of ethics. Fortunately no one dies in my field. Just I see companies and employees getting screwed over. The only recourse are lawsuits, but as litigious as the United States is, a lot of people are hesitant to take that path. Scuba diving isn't any different. People are people. If they can make a buck, they will. When it comes to lawsuits, an agency will try to exhaust the family. I've seen that happen recently.

Word of warning. This comment may trigger some of my "fans."

Well I'm triggered

So here's a scubaboard idea. Anyone remember the website 'rate my professor'

We could do the same but with dive instructors, on scubaboard or another separate site. Such that when these instructors that aren't up to standard, they get exposed real fast before they can make avoidable fatal mistakes.

Or I'm crazy and we should just accept the risks as-is...

 

[wetb4igetinthewater]

Well I'm triggered

So here's a scubaboard idea. Anyone remember the website 'rate my professor'

We could do the same but with dive instructors, on scubaboard or another separate site. Such that when these instructors that aren't up to standard, they get exposed real fast before they can make avoidable fatal mistakes.

Or I'm crazy and we should just accept the risks as-is...

Have you noticed on FB when people recommend dive instructors it is more of a reflection of how much they liked the person. You want the best reviews? Tell jokes, be relaxed, have fun, and always, always pass the student.

Remember that people take up scuba to have fun. The vast majority want to just enjoy themselves including classes. And that's the basis of their recommendations. Now that isn't unreasonable, as people don't know what they don't know. I received nothing but pats on the back all the way up to IDC Staff Instructor. Then I took GUE fundies, and that was a kick in the jimmy. Best skills course I took hands down.

But here's the thing. Most people don't want such a class. Now you don't have to go to that extremes. You can make courses fun (I asked on the I2I forum for ideas). And as I said people don't know what they don't know. One time when I was teaching open water, I shared the pool with some dive master candidates who spent the evening on their knees while all of my students were neutrally buoyant and trimmed the entire course. They thought the DMCs were remedial open water students. I said "no they are becoming dive pros." I still laugh at the memory of the shocked expressions on their faces.

So how did I make classes fun? I was just relaxed and encouraging the students. Since teaching neutrally buoyant and trimmed took less time, I had students play "games." One game was a "race" where they had to carry a golf ball on a spoon. So they had to fin smoothly/slowly. As they say in racing, slow is smooth, smooth is fast.

It is possible, but it takes a paradigm shift and some effort. The industry just doesn't want to do this for fear of losing revenue. I had this specific conversation with an IT for another agency.

 

[cerich]

So risk mitigation wouldn't be a proper cause? Agencies wouldn't cherish the chance to avoid lawsuits by removing such an obvious risk/problem before it costs them in court?

.... yikes.

Isn't that the entire spirit behind dive instruction? Essentially it all boils down to proper technique and risk mitigation? I'm struggling to see how this situation is any different...

define "cost them in court" please. The instructors involved in incidents are required to carry insurance, those policies are what pays defense costs and unless beyond the limits of the policy any judgement.

Yes, it should be the spirit behind dive instruction, sadly to some it is simply a business and the actuarial calculations regards profit matter more

 

[cerich]

Have you noticed on FB when people recommend dive instructors it is more of a reflection of how much they liked the person. You want the best reviews? Tell jokes, be relaxed, have fun, and always, always pass the student.

Remember that people take up scuba to have fun. The vast majority want to just enjoy themselves including classes. And that's the basis of their recommendations. Now that isn't unreasonable, as people don't know what they don't know. I received nothing but pats on the back all the way up to IDC Staff Instructor. Then I took GUE fundies, and that was a kick in the jimmy. Best skills course I took hands down.

But here's the thing. Most people don't want such a class. Now you don't have to go to that extremes. You can make courses fun (I asked on the I2I forum for ideas). And as I said people don't know what they don't know. One time when I was teaching open water, I shared the pool with some dive master candidates who spent the evening on their knees while all of my students were neutrally buoyant and trimmed the entire course. They thought the DMCs were remedial open water students. I said "no they are becoming dive pros." I still laugh at the memory of the shocked expressions on their faces.

So how did I make classes fun? I was just relaxed and encouraging the students. Since teaching neutrally buoyant and trimmed took less time, I had students play "games." One game was a "race" where they had to carry a golf ball on a spoon. So they had to fin smoothly/slowly. As they say in racing, slow is smooth, smooth is fast.

THIS, 100% this.
Frankly, I have pissed off instructors/shops that want to be very good, safe instructors that offer an objectively better course and then wonder why they are struggling business wise. It's because most people want a good time and a card and are going to avoid a instructor shop that is selling a more comprehensive course. The consumer just hears "work, school" and they want fun.
You CAN have more comprehensive classes that are fun, and you can get more business, just understand that that is a marketing, consumer behaviour, and also target demographic function (hint, if you think the whole world should be diving, you are tied to a discount model), not teaching function and that is the mistake many that want to be good instructors/facilities make.

It is possible, but it takes a paradigm shift and some effort. The industry just doesn't want to do this for fear of losing revenue. I had this specific conversation with an IT for another agency.

It ain't the industry that is afraid of it, it's the training agencies. I get that everyone including them tends to think they are the industry, but they are just a part of. The greater industry if they took their head out of the agencies behinds would see this and embrace it. The only losers in the revenue game would be the agencies, everyone else, shops, instructors, resorts, boats, gear, travel would make more money.

The agencies have sucked all the profit oxygen out of the room (industry), it's actually an amazing thing from a business study point of view.

 

[sharkhugger]

define "cost them in court" please. The instructors involved in incidents are required to carry insurance, those policies are what pays defense costs and unless beyond the limits of the policy any judgement.

Yes, it should be the spirit behind dive instruction, sadly to some it is simply a business and the actuarial calculations regards profit matter more

It could be argued that its both the insurance's responsibility and the agencies responsibility to drop instructors with a history of poor judgement.

If agency A drops an instructor, insurance B also drops the instructor and agency C knows this but does nothing, one could argue agency C could be liable for the instructors future mistakes for continuing to allow him to teach. Sure, he still has to find new insurance, but he also has a history of not disclosing personal information on medical documents, one might assume he'd be willing to do such a thing again, but this time on insurance applications.

 

[The Chairman]

The only people who know the details of those medical conditions are the diver himself and his doctors.

Actually, there were others who knew about those. It's how he was caught breaking the rules.

Well the number of scuba instructors that are forced to retire due to medical conditions pales in comparison to the number of pilots.

I injured my back a few years ago. I didn't feel I could assist or rescue a student adequately should a problem arise, so I stopped teaching. Two months after surgery, I think I'm ready for that responsibility again and just might rejoin the instructor ranks. Might. @cerich and I are planning a fun dive, so I might use him as a rescue dummy just to be sure. Don't tell him as it might ruin the surprise.

But yes, even though this is not a technical dive, and I've been cleared by my surgeon to go diving, I've made Cerich acutely aware of my possible limitations. It's the responsible thing to do.

LOL. I aged out when I became an instructor at 45! I lasted far longer than the average instructor (1.5 years).

I had a good 20 year run but I miss it now. My specialty is trim, neutral buoyancy, and propulsion. You don't pass any of my classes without having truly mastered that. Cave instructors love my students. Just ask Cerich about how graceful they are in the water.

I think the industry could do a heck of a lot more for dive safety.

They need to start with trim and neutral buoyancy.

Remember that people take up scuba to have fun.

You can make learning to dive quite fun and still be demanding. No need to be an a-hole to teach them how to be safe.

 

[wetb4igetinthewater]

You can make learning to dive quite fun and still be demanding. No need to be an a-hole to teach them how to be safe.

Maybe you reread my comment that you excerpted from?

 

[The Chairman]

Maybe you reread my comment that you excerpted from?

Oh, I got it. My class reports often call me out for all the fun we have. I use lots of games in classes and to the point that it stops being a class and more of a frolic where they learn really good skills. I learned this from Lord Baden Powell's goal for the Boy Scouts: A game with a purpose. I remember asking a student to do a certain skill, which they simply nailed. During a decompress time on the surface, they marveled at how they knew how to do it because I supposedly hadn't taught it to them. I reminded them of the game we played the day before where I had introduced it. They didn't even realize they were learning, but boy they had that skill down pat.

A game with a purpose!​

The concept will revolutionize your classes when you put your mind to it. Part of that is to always set the example. Part of my continual gaming is an extended game of "follow the leader". I always set the example. Even when I don't see any students, I'm in trim and neutrally buoyant. Some dive buddies think I'm boring because it takes a lot to pull me out of that attitude. When my students imitate me, they end up looking pretty good.

 

[wetb4igetinthewater]

Oh, I got it. My class reports often call me out for all the fun we have. I use lots of games in classes and to the point that it stops being a class and more of a frolic where they learn really good skills. I learned this from Lord Baden Powell's goal for the Boy Scouts: A game with a purpose. I remember asking a student to do a certain skill, which they simply nailed. During a decompress time on the surface, they marveled at how they knew how to do it because I supposedly hadn't taught it to them. I reminded them of the game we played the day before where I had introduced it. They didn't even realize they were learning, but boy they had that skill down pat.

A game with a purpose!​

The concept will revolutionize your classes when you put your mind to it. Part of that is to always set the example. Part of my continual gaming is an extended game of "follow the leader". I always set the example. Even when I don't see any students, I'm in trim and neutrally buoyant. Some dive buddies think I'm boring because it takes a lot to pull me out of that attitude. When my students imitate me, they end up looking pretty good.

The fact that other than NASE and RAID, there's no true movement to teaching neutrally buoyant and trimmed.

Once that happens, then how to make it fun, how to have games. My daughter is 4 and she's almost got the alphabet in 2 languages and counting up to 100. But it has to be a game. There needs to be the gamification of education for people, not just kids. Make it educational AND fun is a recipe for success.

I just don't get how little guidance agencies actually give instructors. I shake my head.

 

[The Chairman]

The fact that other than NASE and RAID, there's no true movement to teaching neutrally buoyant and trimmed.

Uh, GUE. I would probably do well with RAID from what I've heard. I have no idea how to do a cross-over to them.

But it has to be a game.

Has to be a game.

I shake my head.

I kind of revel in it. I look at some agencies where you have to learn x skill on x CL dive. Or show it outside of actual use. I've no idea how RAID does it, but NASE allows me to see it in situ. If I see them clear their mask on the dive, then I don't have to ask them to show me apart from that. This means they not only know how to do the skill, but when to use it. I've had many students ask why we aren't kneeling in a circle in OW doing one skill after the other. No need to. Showing me your skills as we have a fun dive is far, far superior. Let's see your great trim and buoyancy as we look at the pretty fishies.