A compassionate instructor

[Thalassamania]

No one got hurt - so the instructor must have been right ???? There's a new low standard..

Not at all, there is an argument concerning the reasonableness of the Instructor's decision. Based on what he knew of the father and the child he decided that it was reasonable to go forward. We only have a sample of one, but his decision, IN THIS CASE, seems to have been correct. If you feel driven to generalize that singluar incident to all other cases, and thus to a "standand," that's clearly foolish, and irrelvent, except as a guideline for those instructors who lack the background and experience to make these sorts of judgements.

 

[DCBC]

I started snorkeling at 8 and was SCUBA certified at 12. I understand a young boys desires to be older, go into SCUBA, drive a car, etc. but there's a time for everything under the sun. I taught diving for over 10 years before my first son was born, but he (like his 2 brothers) had to wait until they were of age like everyone else.

You would not have been appreciative if your son experienced an air embolism in the pool, nor would you have thought that the Instructor was "compassionate" in any way. You would know without doubt that he should have known better. You also knew this at the time.

Standards are there for a reason. They have been established as reasonable and developed through the summation of diving experience. It's not that I'm not compassionate; I really do understand. Safety is however more important...

 

[DCBC]

"Embolize in four feet of water?" Who came up with this? Drown maybe, but embolize? Gimme a break.

Yes, air embolism with a capital A.

 

[I Dive]

"Embolize in four feet of water?" Who came up with this? Drown maybe, but embolize? Gimme a break.

Explain to us how that is not possible.

 

[GrandpaScuba]

I'm assuming though that those programs require professional supervision, not just giving a kid some gear and leaving him alone with his parent to do whatever?

The student to instructor ratio is 8 to 1. With an additional 2 students per Divecon up to a maximum of 12 students. The standards are mute on the subject of the instructor supervising more than 1 activity at a time.

 

[Brian Sharpe]

Sorry, not a hijack.

If not, you can do what you want and accept any consequences as scuba police only exists in France.

Sadly, not true. If you dive in Quebec (Canada) you must be certified by the Province irrespective of other certifications and/or experience except when being instructed by a provincially licensed instructor or you may (if caught) face fines. The FQAS inspectors have, to date, been in education rather than enforcement mode but......

 

[I Dive]

the iPod can't quote the post properly. I shall take you on in the morning

A post to let me know you'll be making a post later??? Thanks, I guess

pd:

 

[Thalassamania]

I started snorkeling at 8 and was SCUBA certified at 12. I understand a young boys desires to be older, go into SCUBA, drive a car, etc. but there's a time for everything under the sun. I taught diving for over 10 years before my first son was born, but he (like his 2 brothers) had to wait until they were of age like everyone else.

I learned to freedive and to scuba much younger.

You would not have been appreciative if your son experienced an air embolism in the pool, nor would you have thought that the Instructor was "compassionate" in any way. You would know without doubt that he should have known better. You also knew this at the time.

I'm not going to state this as a hard and fast rule, but somehow holding their breath and embolising seems to be an adult phenomena. We had an old bathtub down in a lake that was chained to the bottom (somehow) at about 10 feet, and filled with air. We used to snorkel down to it, pop our heads up, talk and what not, and then swim out, look around, go back, breathe, and then ascend. "Knowing" what I do today I'd never permit this sort of activity; but many, many, kids used the tub back then without any problems.

It reminds me of a story that Chuck Shilling (founder of the UHMS and Senior Medical Officer in the rescue of the submarine U.S.S. Squalus) told me, he always felt that embolism was a fear based problem and in a "natural" state organisms would simple exhale on their way to the surface. To test this idea he took a dog from the Harvard Dog Lab down in the "wandering bell" at the Submarine Escape Training Tower at the New London Submarine Base and tossed the dog out. The dog made it to the surface without any problem.

Standards are there for a reason. They have been established as reasonable and developed through the summation of diving experience. It's not that I'm not compassionate; I really do understand. Safety is however more important...

Standards are there so that adequate guidance is provided for non-experts to be able to make the "good" decisions, not necessarily "best" decisions. Standards are sometimes there because someone wrote them, nothing more, the mere existance of a standard, especially a propriatary standard, does not meam that the author(s) posses any comprehension of, "the summation of diving experience."

 

[mkutyna]

I'm not going to state this as a hard and fast rule, but somehow holding their breath and embolising seems to be an adult phenomena. We had an old bathtub down in a lake that was chained to the bottom (somehow) at about 10 feet, and filled with air. We used to snorkel down to it, pop our heads up, talk and what not, and then swim out, look around, go back, breathe, and then ascend. "Knowing" what I do today I'd never permit this sort of activity; but many, many, kids used the tub back then without any problems.

It reminds me of a story that Chuck Shilling (founder of the UHMS and Senior Medical Officer in the rescue of the submarine U.S.S. Squalus) told me, he always felt that embolism was a fear based problem and in a "natural" state organisms would simple exhale on their way to the surface. To test this idea he took a dog from the Harvard Dog Lab down in the "wandering bell" at the Submarine Escape Training Tower at the New London Submarine Base and tossed the dog out. The dog made it to the surface without any problem.

Interesting. Now that I think about it, that does make sense. Especially when I consider that holding one's breath isn't necessarily a natural skill and is instead learned. Learning to freedive is about learning to control and manage the desire to breathe. I definitely see this with our students when we are administering the underwater swim portion of the swim test. Of course, by the time we are done with the skin diving portion of the class, they have considerably increased their breath hold abilities.

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

Sadly, not true. If you dive in Quebec (Canada) you must be certified by the Province irrespective of other certifications and/or experience except when being instructed by a provincially licensed instructor or you may (if caught) face fines. The FQAS inspectors have, to date, been in education rather than enforcement mode but......

That's bizarre ... fortunately there's not anything I know of that would cause me to want to dive in Quebec.

... Bob (Grateful Diver)