Lake Pleasant Dive Flag Issue

[ScubaSteve2000]

I would like to pause for a moment to reflect on some words of wisdom I came across a while back. Words penned by a fellow diver. A simple phase that I think captures and articulates the feelings many of us share on this subject. And I quote; "Screw you guys. I'm going diving."

See all y'all at the lake. Dive safe.

Steve.

 

[Karen Cleveland]

I would like to pause for a moment to reflect on some words of wisdom I came across a while back. Words penned by a fellow diver. A simple phase that I think captures and articulates the feelings many of us share on this subject. And I quote; "Screw you guys. I'm going diving."

See all y'all at the lake. Dive safe.

Steve.

WORD!

From one of the many.

Karen

 

[Rudebob]

Actually we are planning on demanding enforcement of the wreckless boating law which in and of itself has no impact on divers. Also since diving requires no license or registration law enforcement can ask for ID but you don't have to present them with any. How many officers are going to take you into custody over a dive flag violation? There are other problems with the enforcement of the dive flag law against divers which I'm willing to discuss but the buttom line is enforcement against divers is nearly impossible as the law stands they could write the ticket but it could easily be argued against. Wreckless boating on the other hand is enforceable because of the required boat registration and in some cases captains license.

You have got to be trolling:

Do you really expect to demand "law" enforcement regarding a certain "law" when it suits your agenda but readily admit that you will not be complying with certain other aspects of that exact same "law". Then further advocate not complying with the LEO's if you should be cited for breaking it. With this kind of hypocrisy I really don't think you will find that many from the dive community are ready to unite in your cause.

Incidentally, a 12 year old can legally operate a boat on AZ lakes. He carrys no more identifcation than you do when you dive.

Finally, I wish I had more restraint when comes to arguing in riduculous threads like these. Sometimes I am weak-but hope to have more self control in the future, so hopefully, you will see no more posts from me on this thread.

mg

 

[RAWalker]

You have got to be trolling:

Do you really expect to demand "law" enforcement regarding a certain "law" when it suits your agenda but readily admit that you will not be complying with certain other aspects of that exact same "law". Then further advocate not complying with the LEO's if you should be cited for breaking it. With this kind of hypocrisy I really don't think you will find that many from the dive community are ready to unite in your cause.

Incidentally, a 12 year old can legally operate a boat on AZ lakes. He carrys no more identifcation than you do when you dive.

Finally, I wish I had more restraint when comes to arguing in riduculous threads like these. Sometimes I am weak-but hope to have more self control in the future, so hopefully, you will see no more posts from me on this thread.

mg

If you would have read completely the fact is I advocated having LEO's enforce a wreckless boating law my claim is if the boater ignores the suggestion made by AZ Dive Flag buoy law then that boater is being wreckless and endangering divers. Also I stated that the boats are registered and some require captains licenses to operate.
My other point was enforcement against divers is nearly completely unenforceable in this state based on the limits of the law. These laws are to control the boaters not divers. Why you may ask are they unenforceable against divers? Because a diver on the surface isn't a diver he is a swimmer and entitled to the same protections as any other swimmer. Remember there are no scuba police. Even is there was, is there a way for them to accurately measure the distance a diver is from his flag underwater where he is a diver? The vagueness of the Dive buoy law is a double edged sword but because of other boating laws in AZ we can use it to cut away at the problem.
Bottom line Mike is that doing nothing is nothing more than waiting for someone to get injured. A number of us realize that and are going to be proactive. You can either do nothing and make it seem like fewer people care about the problem than actually do or add you voice to ours when we attempt to effect a positive change and be heard. The status quo of complaining about boaters and doing nothing out of fear of negative results will not apply. So your choice is coming add a voice or live with the results we attain without you.

 

[AZTEK DIVER]

I did my first scuba lake dives in AZ in 1958, sice that time I have seen and heard of MANY accidents/deaths on our lakes for a hundred stupid reasons with the blame going to law inforcement for not controlling the stupid drunks/speeders/skiers/jet skies/swimmers, and lots of others. To the best of my knowledge, the best efforts of all parties involved haven't changed a thing, the stupid people remain stupid. All these efforts are put forth to deal with REAL problems, dealing with what might happen but hasn't in the last 50 years doesn't rank very high with law inforcement. Instead of spending all this time trying to solve a non existing problem, why not work at being smarter divers, don't do stupid stuff at the lakes and the boats will have a much harder time hitting you. I'd really like to hear of all the injured/dead divers that were hit by boats in our lakes, I've heard of none.

 

[RAWalker]

John when you see jetskis using our dive buoys as a slalom courses it's long past time to get enforcement involved. You can be as smart a diver as possible and these type of boaters are putting you at risk. The only way to avoid them is not dive certain areas and we shouldn't need to resort to actions of that sort.

 

[ScubaDubaDo]

when you see jetskis using our dive buoys as a slalom courses it's long past time to get enforcement involved. You can be as smart a diver as possible and these type of boaters are putting you at risk.

Just because there have not yet been any accidents related to divers does not mean we should wait for one to happen. I believe that a large reason for the lack of injuries to divers is the training we all get to pay close attention to what is above us as we ascend. Nonetheless, I prefer not to wait until something happens to me or a fellow diver. I think it is time we petition for enforcement and possibly some new laws.

 

[RAWalker]

It seems from the PM's and other posts that a good number of us are of a like mind and do believe it is time to band together and effect a change. I suggest we figure out something to call our group and draft a public statement for the media and our government that states what we feel is lacking in the enforcement at AZ lakes and what changes we feel need to be made.
My suggestion is that we leave our affilation to the sport of scuba out of this statement and apply it in a broader sense to personal safety of swimmers and divers. This way we may avoid having our sport under a microscope and appeal to a larger group for support.
Constructive feedback welcomed.

 

[SCUBAholicEd]

Very good idea to put SWIMMERS and divers togeather in one group!!!!!

 

[SCUBAholicEd]

Very good point made about stupid people. There just isn't any way to get rid of them. As a boater, when a skiier I'm pulling goes down, many times it is a race to get over to them before the drunk and stupid other boater runs them over. No matter how many laws or new laws there are, stupid people just keep hurting others and them selves.
BUT, I have NEVER seen a violator cited for using a dive flag as a slolom course. I have SEEN that done many times. It is not because law enforcement is doing to many other things, it is because that violation is not in his/her mind. I would bet that any given officer on the water wouldn't know the violation code for that if asked. If they don't know the ARS, what makes any one think that violation is on their mind as they patrol the lake.
If they see it being done do they think a violation is occuring??? Or do they just keep heading on their marry way.
I think bringing the issue out in the open, to educate ALL water users of what a dive flag is and what it means is VERY important. It is common scense. I don't think it will be a negative hit to our sport. The dive flag being put on the map and flyers handed out as you come in with an explanation is a must. A sign showing a dive flag and what it means at enterances and ramps is a positive.
Any issue can be looked at as neg or poss. I think simple steps to educate all is poss. MOST people don't have a clue what a diver down flag is. That includes law enforcment.