Lake Pleasant Dive Flag Issue

[Old-diver]

Handing information out at the gate seems to be a very useful partial solution. I don't see why we need to wait on the park officials to develop and produce handouts. If local dive shops are willing to contribute, we should be able to get a ton of handouts printed. Just needs to design a simple handout with ppt or word, and get it to a printer. I'm not the best in the world, but I'm willing to take a shot at the design. We just need help with the printing costs. I've got to believe that local dive shop operators would be willing to make a small contribution to keep their customers safe. I would seem that a serious incident would be real bad for business.

If we provided handouts to the park officials, they resist handing them out to folks as they come through the gate?

 

[AzAtty]

I have a better idea: let's tether a beer barge out in the middle of the lake. That should keep boaters away.

 

[deepdivered]

sorry to be blunt but i don't see why any one would think they would limit us to a small area. they would loose the ability to issue more tickets. if they could ticket a boaters for violating the flag they will. think about it. it gets them more money. think about it, that's why they put up all the ticket cameras. they want money, especially now.

 

[ScubaSteve2000]

So here goes; thanks, thanks, thanks, thanks, thanks, thanks to Mike for trying to be the voice of reason here. Like he said, we all dive further than the 100 foot limit. Remember, the cop didn't shoo away all the nearby boaters; he chose to shoo Ed away instead.

Remember the golden rule; He who has the gold makes the rules. Boaters and fishermen pay fees for licences we divers don't have to pay. Our only cost is to get into the lake. I have no idea how much it costs to register your boat. I know that it costs hundreds of dollars a year to keep a boat there. Personally, I don't want to have to pay some kind of use permit fee. You can bet it would be more than a few bucks a year.

I'm not certain the LDSs would contribute much to have a handout printed. The two answers I have gotten shen the subject came up were:
1) We just do classes there anyway.
and
2) Why don't you just book trips through us instead?

Really, other than Inland Water Divers and Academy of Scuba most shops don't really have a presence at the lake. Especially in these times, I don't think they would spend a dollar unless they could see some tangibile return. I don't see them getting behind a lake diving effort.

Steve.

Jeeeez! Can’t this subject just die!? What do hope to accomplish here?

You can disagree with me but I see any major effort on the part of divers to pursue this action as having no place to go but bad for the sport at our local lakes. Even if you could rattle enough cages to precipitate some action (keep in mind I don’t believe Sheriff Joe, the media, or even myself would consider this a worthwhile pursuit with everything else going on in this world) I am trying to figure what kind of positive action do you actually think will occur out of it?

All I can see them doing is either eliminating diving altogether, restrict it to a specific and "safe" location they deem best, charge an extra user fee (ie. Tax) to divers to provide additional law enforcement (this has already happened in other sports), or require every diver to tether in tow a personal flag like they require shore divers in Florida. Even at the very least, if the Leo’s are demanded to add an additional enforcement burden to all the garbage they have to deal with each day, human nature tells me they will take it out on the divers before they ticket the boaters. ScubaEd’s encounter with the LEO last week is a subtle reminder as to how this could easily happen.

Lets face it. The law is vague and not really that enforceable. That is good because to be honest I have not dove with anyone at Pleasant yet, that as a diver, has remained within the recommended distance of their dive flag. We are all guilty. So what part of enforcement do you want to change.

IMO the best approach is to do like you should do in every other aspect in life: Hope for the best but prepare for the worst. Select dive sites remote to boat traffic, practice good buoyancy and navigation skills and most importantly, be thankful that right now we can dive anywhere we want to in our lakes. Because I am afraid some of you are committed to screwing up the good thing we got going right now. If that ends up happening you will have to watch out for more than just than boaters at that point.

Fire away...

mg

 

[ffhamm]

It burns my ass when I go to the lake, NOT diving, and someone shows up late in the morning and decides to dive in an area heavily populated with others where boats and jetskis have been camping, and recreating way before the divers show up.

The divers swim out, behind the boats, float their flags, and dive. They get bent out of shape when someone leaves or returns from the beach and gets to close to their flag.

Makes all of us look like tools.

Dive somewhere without 100 boats beached right next to you for every ones safety. Dive early or late, find a remote area or bring enough people early to secure your 'spot'.

There are a-hole boaters (lots of them) but there are a whole lot of a-hole divers too. We need to use common sense, and be courteous to the other lake users (who outnumber us like a billion to one) Before WE (the minority) get the boot.

 

[PhxSki]

I agree that the best approach at Lake Pleasant is to be courteous, use some common sense and above all, keep a low profile. If the authorities determine that boating and scuba diving can't co-exist, for safety reasons, they're going to be forced to make a decision. A reasonable approach, for a number of obvious reasons, would be to restrict diving to a designated area. None of us want that.

Ever hear of the law of unintended consequences?

 

[RAWalker]

How about we buy a beer for the deputy for every boater they legally ticket for being to close to a dive flag. I'll bet we'll owe them a few cases in no time and the problem will go away.

 

[RAWalker]

I agree that the best approach at Lake Pleasant is to be courteous, use some common sense and above all, keep a low profile. If the authorities determine that boating and scuba diving can't co-exist, for safety reasons, they're going to be forced to make a decision. A reasonable approach, for a number of obvious reasons, would be to restrict diving to a designated area. None of us want that.

Ever hear of the law of unintended consequences?

First I don't believe the low profile is the best option. The squeeky wheel get oiled.
Secondly without restricting swimming in the lake they would have a hard time restricting diving.
Remember that swimmers have right of way over boaters and we are just swimmers with extra gear. People have access rights motorists don't. It is easy for them to restrict power boats where swimmers have much more legal recourse. Why haven't we tried to get our Scuba sanctioning bodies involved in this issue. We do have resources like the boaters and a couple of things we don't have is a bad safety record or the issue of poluting the waters working against us.

 

[ScubaSteve2000]

First I don't believe the low profile is the best option. The squeeky wheel get oiled.
Secondly without restricting swimming in the lake they would have a hard time restricting diving.
Remember that swimmers have right of way over boaters and we are just swimmers with extra gear. People have access rights motorists don't. It is easy for them to restrict power boats where swimmers have much more legal recourse. Why haven't we tried to get our Scuba sanctioning bodies involved in this issue. We do have resources like the boaters and a couple of things we don't have is a bad safety record or the issue of poluting the waters working against us.

The fly in this ointment here is they usually post "No Swimming" signs not "No Boating" signs. No swimming signs are posted at and near most if not all of the boat ramps and docks. Swimmers do not have access rights over boaters. It seems that it is the other way around.

Steve.

 

[PhxSki]

Steve is absolutely right. The right-of-way of swimmers over boaters is not absolute just as the right-of-way of pedestrians over motor vehicles is not absolute.