ScubaSteve2000
Contributor
Steve...we don't need to worry about Sherriff Joe as he is too busy chasing illegals and finding new ways to get in the media's eye...
See? He's a busy guy.
Lake Pleasant Dive Flag Issue
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See? He's a busy guy.
As I see it there really isn't much to discuss about this any further.
We have 2 groups of people that disagree.
1 group wants to be silent except to try and stop the others from taking action and the other group has just as much right to express their concerns to the authorities and request action be taken. Those that want action to be taken are willing to sit down with authorities and work on a course in the best interest of us all.
Bottom line is this will be going forward and since you realize this may effect a change one way or the other wouldn't you prefer to help guide it instead of sitting on the sidelines? Or do you prefer to just have something to complain about whether it be the boaters or the other divers that don't share you're point of view? Your input to how and what is requested really is the only place there is room for these 2 sides to compromise. knowing that if you don't add your input you'll have to live with whatever may happens when you may have been able to contribute and make a difference.
Either way I don't feel I need to try and convince anyone further. Those that want to help chart a course can PM me and I'll keep you up to date and informed as a group. This back and forth is only productive to those who favor the status quo. As far as I'm concern your entitled to your opinion but I don't see the relevance since it only take 1 person to bring this to the public eye. I'm not going to continue arguing about it and going a few more rounds repeating the same retoric it's all been said.
We have 2 groups of people that disagree.
1 group wants to be silent except to try and stop the others from taking action and the other group has just as much right to express their concerns to the authorities and request action be taken. Those that want action to be taken are willing to sit down with authorities and work on a course in the best interest of us all.
Bottom line is this will be going forward and since you realize this may effect a change one way or the other wouldn't you prefer to help guide it instead of sitting on the sidelines? Or do you prefer to just have something to complain about whether it be the boaters or the other divers that don't share you're point of view? Your input to how and what is requested really is the only place there is room for these 2 sides to compromise. knowing that if you don't add your input you'll have to live with whatever may happens when you may have been able to contribute and make a difference.
Either way I don't feel I need to try and convince anyone further. Those that want to help chart a course can PM me and I'll keep you up to date and informed as a group. This back and forth is only productive to those who favor the status quo. As far as I'm concern your entitled to your opinion but I don't see the relevance since it only take 1 person to bring this to the public eye. I'm not going to continue arguing about it and going a few more rounds repeating the same retoric it's all been said.
Sad, sad, sad. This problem always comes up and it is always the same. I, sadly, don't see a solution, until their is a mandatory licensing program for boaters. No grandfather clauses. If you currently own a boat then you have 1 year to obtain the licensing. If you don't then you can't buy one without it.
Initial class could be a 8 hour class over 1 or two days with a test at the end to get your license. Then every 2 years you pay a meager fee of maybe $10-20, retake a written test over boating laws and regulations over your state and away you go again.
Sad part is I don't see that happening either. It couldn't just be one or two states either because people would just roll over to the next state to buy their boat. Has to be all.
In the mean time simply tie your flag to a decent sized log with a few short cut stubs on it. That way when the boater runs over your flag they also put a nice hole in the bottom of their boat.
Initial class could be a 8 hour class over 1 or two days with a test at the end to get your license. Then every 2 years you pay a meager fee of maybe $10-20, retake a written test over boating laws and regulations over your state and away you go again.
Sad part is I don't see that happening either. It couldn't just be one or two states either because people would just roll over to the next state to buy their boat. Has to be all.
In the mean time simply tie your flag to a decent sized log with a few short cut stubs on it. That way when the boater runs over your flag they also put a nice hole in the bottom of their boat.
What the (naughty f word) do I care anyway..... I can always fly a dive flag from my boat, and dive wherever I want.
I don't need to dive from the shore, just figured it was a nice way to spend time with some of you.
So I guess if we lose access to popular areas (which I predict) I'll just float my happy ass somewhere else....
Jeff
I don't need to dive from the shore, just figured it was a nice way to spend time with some of you.
So I guess if we lose access to popular areas (which I predict) I'll just float my happy ass somewhere else....
Jeff
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ScubaSteve2000
Contributor
It’s too bad that this thread spiraled out of control. I think we all can agree with the basic premise that boats and jet skis add to the inherent dangers of scuba diving. I think we can agree that eventually some diver will get hurt by a boat or jet ski. But you can also get hurt by a car or motorcycle when crossing the street. What to do about it is where things started to go sideways. It is interesting to go back and review the thread. To watch its descent. To see how a well meaning idea can be co-opted and twisted little by little until what remains bears little resemblance to the original intent.
There will never be any kind of poll taken on this issue because the results would fly in the face of the circular logic and convoluted arguments we've been subjected to here. When some of us talk about unintended consequences and responsible diving practices, we're called cowards and fearful. When someone asks to see the stats for injuries to divers from boats or jet skis at Lake Pleasant they are conveniently ignored. Asking if boaters and jet skiers should be ticketed for coming too close to a dive flag is like asking if you think there should be clean drinking water. Who wouldn’t say yes? Ask the ticketing question of divers who have read this thread, and I don’t think they would be so quick to answer. Not if the emails I have been getting are any indication.
It's the MY WAY OR THE HIGHWAY attitude that pisses people off. Who died and made you Ruler of the Lake? I never asked you to speak for me. I want to say right here: you do not speak for me. And when somebody tells me that they are looking out for my best interests, a major red flag, sans the white stripe, goes up.
Mike did a great job of pointing out some historical evidence showing what has happened in the past when an activity at the lake has been deemed to be too dangerous. It is ended. That’s the cheapest and easiest thing to do. His knowledge didn’t come from some article he read. Not from some dreamed up fantasy of self promotion. It came from his own hard fought experience. He’s “been there, done that” on this issue.
I still don’t really understand what it is you are seeking to accomplish. On the one hand you want the LEOs to ticket boaters for coming closer than 100 feet to a dive flag but on the issue of ticketing divers who stray more than 100 feet away you espouse non-cooperation and non-compliance. Your reasoning is that the LEO is too lazy or stupid to want to mess with all the paperwork involved in arresting a non-cooperative diver. Another pearl of wisdom I don’t think I will take.
Then while this is certainly a diving issue, you decide that it should be couched as a swimmer's issue. You said we should leave the sport of scuba out of this (we agree on that). One can almost hear the conspiratory tone. Unfortunately, no swimming usually means no diving.
Enough. I’m not the one who made it personal. I am answering a challenge. As for my being a coward and “living in fear,” I’ll be happy to let those who know me and dive with me answer for me. I think I know what they’ll say. And as for my friends whom you have belittled and besmirched in this thread -- Bill, Mike, Kris, John, Stephen, Jeff and others -- stop it.
Steve.
There will never be any kind of poll taken on this issue because the results would fly in the face of the circular logic and convoluted arguments we've been subjected to here. When some of us talk about unintended consequences and responsible diving practices, we're called cowards and fearful. When someone asks to see the stats for injuries to divers from boats or jet skis at Lake Pleasant they are conveniently ignored. Asking if boaters and jet skiers should be ticketed for coming too close to a dive flag is like asking if you think there should be clean drinking water. Who wouldn’t say yes? Ask the ticketing question of divers who have read this thread, and I don’t think they would be so quick to answer. Not if the emails I have been getting are any indication.
It's the MY WAY OR THE HIGHWAY attitude that pisses people off. Who died and made you Ruler of the Lake? I never asked you to speak for me. I want to say right here: you do not speak for me. And when somebody tells me that they are looking out for my best interests, a major red flag, sans the white stripe, goes up.
Mike did a great job of pointing out some historical evidence showing what has happened in the past when an activity at the lake has been deemed to be too dangerous. It is ended. That’s the cheapest and easiest thing to do. His knowledge didn’t come from some article he read. Not from some dreamed up fantasy of self promotion. It came from his own hard fought experience. He’s “been there, done that” on this issue.
I still don’t really understand what it is you are seeking to accomplish. On the one hand you want the LEOs to ticket boaters for coming closer than 100 feet to a dive flag but on the issue of ticketing divers who stray more than 100 feet away you espouse non-cooperation and non-compliance. Your reasoning is that the LEO is too lazy or stupid to want to mess with all the paperwork involved in arresting a non-cooperative diver. Another pearl of wisdom I don’t think I will take.
Then while this is certainly a diving issue, you decide that it should be couched as a swimmer's issue. You said we should leave the sport of scuba out of this (we agree on that). One can almost hear the conspiratory tone. Unfortunately, no swimming usually means no diving.
Enough. I’m not the one who made it personal. I am answering a challenge. As for my being a coward and “living in fear,” I’ll be happy to let those who know me and dive with me answer for me. I think I know what they’ll say. And as for my friends whom you have belittled and besmirched in this thread -- Bill, Mike, Kris, John, Stephen, Jeff and others -- stop it.
Steve.
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