Lake Pleasant Dive Flag Issue

[RAWalker]

The only places that no swimming is posted is at the ramps or at dams and it also says no fishing. This is a safety issue for a dedicated resource(the ramp is there for the specific purpose of launching boats) The only other area this happens at is a safety zone near dams. Nothing is absolute but in the open waters swimmers do have right of way. Same as a pedestrian in the middle of the street may be jay walking but it is a drivers responsibility to avoid the pedestrian. The only time the motorist is off the hook is when an accident is unavoidable as in a pedestrian suddenly jumping out from between to parked cars.

Plus you will find lakes and ponds (other than Lake PLeasant) that don't allow powerboats or limit them to electric motors while still being open to swimmers. The only waters I can think of that allow boats and not swimmers are some of the community lakes that don't allow swimmers for health and safety reasons. This is because the water quality is not maintained or it has drains that are not safe for swimmers. Plus these are considered private property and not open to public use. The case with tempe town lake is water quality there is generally unheathly and because it is really a wash area it is unsafe for general swimming so that is reserved for special events.

 

[stnichols]

A couple of things. I tried working on this issue about 10 years ago. When talking to one politician he asked me if anyone had been injured or killed, I told him not to my knowledge. His reply back was its not much of a problem then isn't it?

Dive Training Magazine has an article on Lake Pleasant diving in their latest issue. I sent them an email pointing out one error. "A float and flag are highly recommended, but is not required, when diving from shore." I'm hoping the will publish a correction at least.

Have a great day

Stephen

 

[RAWalker]

A couple of things. I tried working on this issue about 10 years ago. When talking to one politician he asked me if anyone had been injured or killed, I told him not to my knowledge. His reply back was its not much of a problem then isn't it?

Dive Training Magazine has an article on Lake Pleasant diving in their latest issue. I sent them an email pointing out one error. "A float and flag are highly recommended, but is not required, when diving from shore." I'm hoping the will publish a correction at least.

Have a great day

Stephen

Today gov'ts take a bit more active roll if you bring a problem to their attention. The reason being if you bring it to their attention and they do nothing then they have liability in the event of an accident. Courts on the other hand tend to be conservative with personal liablity unless there is extreme wrecklessness involved they will general limit awards to insurance limits. (if there is insurance) If liabilty falls with a government entity however awards tend to be larger because no one likes gov'ts that fail to take care of issues.

 

[deepdivered]

people keep referencing to me having to move. i only had to move because i did not have a traditional dive flag. it was just a safety sausage with a diver down symbol on it and the words diver down.

lol i forgot the floating flag at home oops.

in the morning i am calling uscg to ask if my dive master is correct on telling me about the uscg having control over lake pleasant. he used to work for the government diving. so we will see.

i really think this is an issue and i will be willing to help in any way i can about this.

 

[ScubaSteve2000]

Since I've never seen a coast guard boat patrolling on Lake Pleasant I'm inclined to believe that they let the Sherriff's department take care of it. There is a local coast guard auxillary group and I have seen them at the lake on only one occasion. But none of them looked like they were under 60 years old and looked kind of comical as they struggled to get their boat launched. I would be much amazed if the USCG has any kind of jurisdiction there.

 

[RAWalker]

Ed you are quite correct this is an issue.
Those that think the correct course of action is to stay silence and not create waves had best realize that putting ones head in the sand does not make a problem disappear. Indeed this is a matter that sticking your head out of the water could get you decapitated. Since it is apparent that a number of us are of the opinion that something should be done and are nearing the point of taking actions that would force the issue to be responded to by public officials it would be better to come together as a unified voice and pool our resources to effect a positive change to protect both our sport and our safety at not only lake Pleasant but all AZ bodies of water.

 

[deepdivered]

yes i mean look at lake mead there is a separate scuba area for training but its not the only place u can dive. i think that there has to be a ticket that could be issued and if the law there knew it they would do it. u ever see a law book. i doubt any officer has every offence memorized!

 

[RAWalker]

yes i mean look at lake mead there is a separate scuba area for training but its not the only place u can dive. i think that there has to be a ticket that could be issued and if the law there knew it they would do it. u ever see a law book. i doubt any officer has every offence memorized!

You are correct about the police and our law. As an example I had a neighbor that put a hen house and roosters in his back yard along with parking a dumptruck in it.
The neighbors were mexican and when they moved in played dumb and pulled a no speak english routine on me and my wife.
I called the Mesa police to complain and the responding officer said there was nothing they could do that fowl were legal in Mesa. I had to tell him that Mesa requires fowl to be 75' from both the neighbors home and mine. That wasn't feasable so the fowl had to go. Mesa also doesn't allow parking vehicles with 4 or more than 18" wheels on single axle on a residential property if it can be seen outside the property. So the truck had to go also but the officer again didn't know this until I pointed it out. I had done my research before calling and had copies of the laws I had printed from Mesa's website.
AZAtty wen't to the trouble of finding us a law that we could ask the sheriff to use to enforce the 100' suggestion in AZ law arguing that being any closer to a dive buoy would be wreckless boating and wreckless endangerment of divers.

 

[Rudebob]

Ed you are quite correct this is an issue.
Those that think the correct course of action is to stay silence and not create waves had best realize that putting ones head in the sand does not make a problem disappear. Indeed this is a matter that sticking your head out of the water could get you decapitated. Since it is apparent that a number of us are of the opinion that something should be done and are nearing the point of taking actions that would force the issue to be responded to by public officials it would be better to come together as a unified voice and pool our resources to effect a positive change to protect both our sport and our safety at not only lake Pleasant but all AZ bodies of water.

So is it my understanding that you intend to demand enforcement of the "law" which would also include ticketing of scuba divers that are guilty of straying outside the recommended distance from their dive flag?

Incidentally, a reading of this thread by individual posters seams to actually indicate a large number of divers do not support the cause, in fact, there are many who are concerned about the possible negative affect it may have on our sport.

It is not about putting our heads in the sand. There are plenty of things I worry about when diving: I worry about OOA emergencies, entaglements, equipment failures, being paired up with a dangerous buddy, and I worry about loosing my rights to dive where I want to at the local lakes. But I don't worry about decapitation. You see it is a matter of assessing the risk and realizing that it is not that big of concern (both statistically and in practice when diving defensively) and certainly not worth jepordizing our current access to our local lakes for diving.

mg

 

[RAWalker]

Actually we are planning on demanding enforcement of the wreckless boating law which in and of itself has no impact on divers. Also since diving requires no license or registration law enforcement can ask for ID but you don't have to present them with any. How many officers are going to take you into custody over a dive flag violation? There are other problems with the enforcement of the dive flag law against divers which I'm willing to discuss but the buttom line is enforcement against divers is nearly impossible as the law stands they could write the ticket but it could easily be argued against. Wreckless boating on the other hand is enforceable because of the required boat registration and in some cases captains license.