Lake Pleasant Dive Flag Issue

[AZTEK DIVER]

A jet ski can run circles around my bouy/flag until he runs out of gas if he wants, it's not my first choice but it's not going to hurt me, my flag follows me around and I don't come up until I'm in very shallow water. If instructors/divers are using a stationary bouy they should have surface support to ward off the idiots, or take a pole spear along to break the water ahead of you. If you really want to get law inforcement more involved, contact the sheriffs dive team, and the different police dive teams so they can make the agencies aware of the problem. I've had hundreds of boat cruise over me in the ocean, and our lookouts on board let them know about it, but the only way you're going to get hit if if you're not diving smart.

 

[RAWalker]

A Jetski can also run in inches of water so you wouldn't necesarily be safe from an idiot using one. Using a pole spear to break the water may make you liable for an injury or death you may inflict on a jetskier and cause you injury at the same time. Sorry but that doesn't seem so smart to me and I would advise against a practice of that sort.

 

[AZTEK DIVER]

A Jetski can also run in inches of water so you wouldn't necesarily be safe from an idiot using one. Using a pole spear to break the water may make you liable for an injury or death you may inflict on a jetskier and cause you injury at the same time. Sorry but that doesn't seem so smart to me and I would advise against a practice of that sort.

Do you really think the jetski is going to chase you into shallow water, they aproach the flag because they don't know what it is, or maybe they're just out to get you.
The pole spear comment was thrown in to go along with some of the other stupid comments. You are aware that if you're walking or driving near a road there's a chance you'll get hit by a car, there's lots of laws to prevent it but people still get killed. You've got alot better chance of choking to death on food than a diver getting hit in the water, maybe we should get some laws against selling food.

 

[ffhamm]

Wreckless boating on the other hand is enforceable because of the required boat registration and in some cases captains license.

What about taking responsibility for our own actions/safety? What about reckless diving? Most of the dive spots frequented by divers are within 100 yards or less from boat ramps or major recreational areas. Divers WILL LOSE if they go head to head with boaters for usage/access rights. On any given day, there is a handful of divers, and hundreds of boaters. I can guarantee you that you, the diver will be asked to leave high traffic areas rather than waste resources to police the recommended distance from a dive flag. Its easier to do, and affects less users. The boaters pay the majority of the fees to keep the lake in operation.
Maybe a better idea is to pay scubateers or diver down to take you to an area that is safe to dive. Maybe dive at night, dive from less populated areas, or buy a boat and find spots that make you comfortable.
As I stated in an earlier post, I have been at the lake, with several families with boats, and had a diver enter the water behind our boats and decide to dive. The diver got pissed when boats came in and out of the beach where they were camped because they were too close to his flag. THE BOATS WERE THERE FIRST.
I understand the concerns, and there are a-hole boaters. We need to be responsible divers. If you decide to dive in a traffic lane, you should assume the risks that come with that choice and understand YOU are the minority.

my 2 cents

Jeff

 

[RAWalker]

Boaters are using a motorvehicle and like many they can be fatal when misused.
For this reason under the law they have a responsibilty to understand the proper operation and the laws related to their operation. This includes dive buoys. Boaters can and should be held responsible. Using a motorvehicle is a privilege not a right. As such boaters do not have use rights under the law. They are allowed the priviledge and that privilege can be withdrawn by the state. Residents however have use rights to use government owned properties. These non motorized uses require just cause to be withdrawn. Such as public safety or health. Regardless to the economics involved one is a right the other a privilege. Guess what happens if it goes to court.

 

[ScubaDubaDo]

My suggestion is that we leave our affilation to the sport of scuba out of this statement and apply it in a broader sense to personal safety of swimmers and divers. This way we may avoid having our sport under a microscope and appeal to a larger group for support.

This is a really good idea. It appears that not everyone is going to agree to pursuing this nor take part. I think it may be time to gather the people that support this initiative and begin the drafting process...

 

[ScubaDubaDo]

What about taking responsibility for our own actions/safety? What about reckless diving?

I think you are correct and there are some divers that just do not think and believe that once they enter the water all traffic should stop and everyone should bow to their presence. If you dive and pick an entry point already populated with jet skiers and/or boaters, then it should be expected that they have the "right-of-way" as they were there first. Said diver has no rational basis for getting upset for them enjoying their sport at that spot.

I also believe, and I am guilty of this at times, that it is the diver's responsibility to not place the dive flag/float in a stationary position and then dive wherever. In all fairness, to be responsible and respectful of the boaters and jet skiers, we should be towing our flag/float by a line so that it is always overhead or close to it...

 

[ScubaSteve2000]

My suggestion is that we leave our affilation to the sport of scuba out of this statement .
Constructive feedback welcomed.

I whole heartedly agree. Leave us divers out of it. Probably the best idea in the whole thread. Nicely done, Rob.

 

[ScubaDubaDo]

ARS 5-341. Negligent operation of watercraft or water skis; restriction in operation of watercraft; violation; classification

A. No person shall operate a watercraft in a careless, reckless or negligent manner.

ARS 5-343. Speed restrictions; excessive wake

No person shall operate a watercraft in excess of the posted limit or at a speed greater than is reasonable and prudent under the conditions and having regard to the actual and potential hazards then existing. In every event, speed shall be so controlled as may be necessary to avoid colliding with any person or other watercraft, swamping other watercraft or otherwise endangering the lives or property of other persons.

ARS 5-345. Navigation rules

F. In every case, the operator of any watercraft shall use due caution to avoid an accident or collision with another watercraft or person.

ARS 5-347. Interference with navigation or launching areas

A. No person shall unreasonably or unnecessarily interfere with other watercraft, with the free and proper use of the waterways of the state or with areas used for launching watercraft onto such waterways. Anchoring or swimming in heavily traveled channels or launching areas shall constitute such interference.

There does not appear to be any suggestion even on the proper distance that one should have between them (boater or jet skier) and a dive flag, only that divers must float a flag evidenced by:

ARS 5-362. Diver flag

A red flag with white diagonal stripe from staffhead to opposite corner shall be recognized as a diver flag and shall be displayed when a person or persons are actually diving below the water surface and are equipped with apparatus to allow such person or persons to breathe under water.

 

[ffhamm]

Boaters are using a motorvehicle and like many they can be Regardless to the economics involved one is a right the other a privilege. Guess what happens if it goes to court.

How 'bout before it goes to court? Restrict diving 1/4 mile from boat ramps? Pass ordinance that prohibits shore diving? Like you said, it's all about public safety. Govt loves to protect us from ourselves. If you cant figure out that you will lose against a boat prop, and not show enough common sense to stay out of major traffic areas, you will be banned from diving there.(It has happened in a lot of places) Do the divers that use lake pleasant have the resources necessary to take on the boaters and the user groups that support them? Sure, you may end up with a designated no-boat area, but it probably wont be a desirable area, and it will be destroyed by overuse. Been to Butcher Jones at Saguaro? Everybody without a boat congregates there. Giant dump/sewer. Wouldn't swim there if you paid me. (But its safe from boats)
There are not enough cops on the lake to babysit a dozen divers. I would guess there are probably 2-4 sheriff boats for 7500 acres of water. Dive flag violations are like jaywalking. A violation could kill someone but a cop has to see it, and its hard to see most of the time.
Bigger fish to fry.... Maybe if the dive shops pay 'ol Joe for a couple of deputies salaries, he can arrange for a scuba cop..... Not on my dollar.

Jeff