Lake Pleasant Dive Flag Issue

[ScubaSteve2000]

I think you are correct and there are some divers that just do not think and believe that once they enter the water all traffic should stop and everyone should bow to their presence. If you dive and pick an entry point already populated with jet skiers and/or boaters, then it should be expected that they have the "right-of-way" as they were there first. Said diver has no rational basis for getting upset for them enjoying their sport at that spot.

I also believe, and I am guilty of this at times, that it is the diver's responsibility to not place the dive flag/float in a stationary position and then dive wherever. In all fairness, to be responsible and respectful of the boaters and jet skiers, we should be towing our flag/float by a line so that it is always overhead or close to it...

I agree with you on this one. Another approach is to shoot a SMB if you have to surface in deep water. There's been a couple of occasions when I should have but didn't because I didn't have one. Now I carry a finger spool with markings at 10 feet and 20 feet and a SMB. I agree that it is really up to us to be responsible for our own safety.

My concern is if some headline grabbing politician decides not to waste a "good" crisis, albeit contrived, and decide it's in our best interest to limit our dive area to Two Cow Cove which is dry three or four months out of the year. And those boat diving operations? Forgetaboutit. To dangerous. Scubateers III and Diver Down II will be a memory.

Just like there is no substitute for good driving practices; there is no substitute for good diving practices; taking personal responsibility for our own actions and safety; plan the dive and dive the plan; plan for contingencies and problems; don't dive beyond your personal envelope of ability.

 

[ffhamm]

ARS 5-341.

ARS 5-347. Interference with navigation or launching areas

A. No person shall unreasonably or unnecessarily interfere with other watercraft, with the free and proper use of the waterways of the state or with areas used for launching watercraft onto such waterways. Anchoring or swimming in heavily traveled channels or launching areas shall constitute such interference.


ARS 5-362. Diver flag

A red flag with white diagonal stripe from staffhead to opposite corner shall be recognized as a diver flag and shall be displayed when a person or persons are actually diving below the water surface and are equipped with apparatus to allow such person or persons to breathe under water.

These are the ones that will stick you...."Swimming in heavily traveled channels or launching areas shall constitute such interference"

That means if you are in those areas during heavy use periods, YOU are the problem.

Notice AZ law doesn't specify how close a watercraft can be to your flag. A good lawyer could argue if you are struck by a boat anywhere except exactly where your flag is, it is your fault as boaters are unable to see your exact location .


Jeff..... Responsible enough to watch out for myself.

(doesn't like to shoot himself or his sports interests in the foot)

 

[ScubaDubaDo]

just like there is no substitute for good driving practices; there is no substitute for good diving practices; taking personal responsibility for our own actions and safety; plan the dive and dive the plan; plan for contingencies and problems; don't dive beyond your personal envelope of ability.

here here...

 

[RAWalker]

Jeff that would require new laws. Read the laws in post #79 and understand the difference between rights and privileges.
1)Our diver flag is for when we are underwater on the surface we are swimmers.
2)The only restriction that applies to us as swimmers or divers is interferring with launching areas or swimming in heavily traveled channels (which are of course marked with buoys)
These laws are very clear that boaters:
In every case, the operator of any watercraft shall use due caution to avoid an accident or collision with another watercraft or person.
And
No person shall operate a watercraft in excess of the posted limit or at a speed greater than is reasonable and prudent under the conditions and having regard to the actual and potential hazards then existing. In every event, speed shall be so controlled as may be necessary to avoid colliding with any person or other watercraft, swamping other watercraft or otherwise endangering the lives or property of other persons.
Otherwise it would be considered a violation of:
No person shall operate a watercraft in a careless, reckless or negligent manner.

Seems straightforward to me! Anything unclear? Is there anybody doesn't understand?

Here's a thought... If Joe doesn't have the manpower then we volunteer to form a possi. Do you think he'll turn down the money from writting tickets?
It won't stop boaters from coming to the lake it will just stop them from acting like A-holes. So it would increase the revenue stream. Ever hear of someone not driving because they got a ticket?
The worst of the boaters would end up serving time and keeping them off the lake would be a blessing.

Thank you Scubadubado!

 

[RAWalker]

These are the ones that will stick you...."Swimming in heavily traveled channels or launching areas shall constitute such interference"

That means if you are in those areas during heavy use periods, YOU are the problem.

Notice AZ law doesn't specify how close a watercraft can be to your flag. A good lawyer could argue if you are struck by a boat anywhere except exactly where your flag is, it is your fault as boaters are unable to see your exact location .


Jeff..... Responsible enough to watch out for myself.

(doesn't like to shoot himself or his sports interests in the foot)

The heavily traveled waterways are marked with buoys and have speed limits.
Even though people launch from all over the lake only those areas designed, built and set aside for this special purpose are actually covered under the law as launching areas.
A good lawyer will tell you if you hit a person in the water you are screwed. Read the law the responsibilty rests with the boater.

 

[ScubaSteve2000]

Pretty much sums it up.

 

[scubajcf]

Hey All,

If you are diving this weekend, have fun, be smart and dive safe! And, of course, don't forget your dive flag

Happy 4th of July ... in the greatest country in the world!
Best,

JcF

 

[AzAtty]

http://www.scubaboard.com/forums/ac...rs-hit-speeding-boat-off-hollywood-beach.html

 

[ScubaSteve2000]

"Instead of spending all this time trying to solve a non existing problem, why not work at being smarter divers, don't do stupid stuff at the lakes and the boats will have a much harder time hitting you." (AZTEK DIVER)

I've been reading about how cave diving in Florida claimed a lot of lives in the mid 70's. The powers that be considered saving those stupid divers from themselves by making cave diving illegal. (Kinda has a familiar ring)

The diving community came together and created a set of safety procedures that cave divers all adopted. Cave diving deaths dropped considerably and have remained there for years. Indeed the majority of cave diving related deaths were among untrained recreational divers. Now several training organizations offer certifications in Cave and Cavern diving. Given PADI's predilection for creating certifications it is conceivable that there could be a Lake Diver/Shore Diver certification created (if there isn't one already).

The certification would include safety procedures specific to diving in lakes where boat traffic is a consideration. It would also include skills like shooting a SMB; navigation and mapping; overhead environment procedures tweaked a bit to apply to diving around boat traffic; dive planning.

Maybe John or another instructor could approach PADI or another certifying organization and put something together. I firmly believe that the only group that should be responsible for our safety is us.

 

[RAWalker]

We can only control factors of our dives and diving but not how boaters at the lake handle their boats. For this reason it is necessary to have the laws governing safe boating to be enforced to the strictest level possible. We are not asking for new laws just to use those available to law enforcement to keep boaters away from dive flags. This isn't just a matter of "The AZ dive flag law" but has to do with the other AZ laws that cover boating. Wake up and smell the coffee you can be as safe as humanly possible but a boat moving at high speed where it shouldn't be can kill you. This is not a non existing problem. Last thurday nite a boat was heading right for 2 dive flags. The boater wasn't using any form of spot light just running lights. If not for shore support shining a flashlight at the boat and the flag this could have developed into an incident. So should we stop nite diving activities? The boater is responsible for the safe operation of the boat and should have been using a light to avoid the flags.