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The internet has changed, in a lot of fields, how business gets done. The dive industry is not special in that sense, but it does have some very unique issues. LP is the most extreme example of the issues facing our sport. It sort of natually ends up dividing people into two camps, and while there may still be a fair number of people on the sidelines today, just wait and everyone will be effected.

The two haves of this coin are:

1. I like the lowest cost, and I am willing to take some risk, as long as lowest cost is what I get. Forget all of the justification about "LDS which uses it monopoly position in the county to do whatever they wish with costumers and are generally happy to see LP being bashed. The issue is just cost. The bigger the difference, the more important it is.

2. The LDS trying to stay in business, attempting to compete against someone without the overhead, without the storefront costs and with tremendously bigger volume to cover expenses.


I don't know if any LDS getting rich on running a dive shop in most of the world. I would guess there are some really special locations that do really well, but that is not the norm. I believe most do it for love of the sport, first and making a living second. (with some exceptions).

The first major problem with LP versus the LDS is that, in many locations, if the LDS losses all of its sales, or sells at the LP price, they will no longer exist. The other option would be to greatly increase the cost of the other services they provide. And that decreases their market, at a time they need to increase it.

Some mfg have decided to fight this issue by only selling through the LDS, which is somewhat like sticking your head in the sand to avoid trouble. Other have decided to join the internet, but in as controlled a way as possible.

LP is taking free market advantage of the turmoil all this has caused and is making money. Those that buy from them get the lower price, at our sport will eventually pay a price for it.

Ever wonder how LP gets it stuff? There are a bunch of ways, but the following is a good example:

A LDS, who sees reduced sales from the internet, decides to buy a large amount of product to get a very low price. They then sell as much as they can at the low price and dump the excess to someone like LP. They are happy, because they increased their sales, the customer is happy, because they got a lower price, and everyone on the LP side is happy, because they also got lower prices. Unfortunely, all the other LDS, although they did not know it, lost a small amount of sales.

Over a long time, this situation sucks for the entire sport, but we have no easy answer, nothing that will make all sides happy, so expect this issue to just get worse as time passes.

I understand why people buy fro LP, but I, for one, will not.
 
Well, let's see now... I bought a Mares R2 regulator from LP, on eBay no less! The item came with the correct warrantee information and it did work properly right from the box.

The LDS that services my regulators gave me no problem when I brought it in. They charged me the same price as they do when they service my Conshelf SE3.

Chanukah is coming and I intend to purchase another Mares regulator for my daughter from LP.

Now, if you want to hear about some of my experiences with arrogant LDS employees, PM me. Ask me about the kid who told me that I would kill myself if I didn't dive with a ($600) computer.
 
riguerin:
Hmmm ... this sounds like a cleverly disguised trick question :05: I am by no means an industry expert, but I'm pretty sure that those companies you mentioned (and others like Aqualung/Apex) do not allow online sales of their products.

No trick to it at all -- you've remarked that you don't understand why anyone would choose to do business with LP; I'm pointing out (socratically) that there are reasons. Selection, availability, convenience....
 
lairdb:
No trick to it at all -- you've remarked that you don't understand why anyone would choose to do business with LP; I'm pointing out (socratically) that there are reasons. Selection, availability, convenience....

LP sells $10,000,000.00 + SCUBA gear each year. Most likely 80% or more of the items they sell they buy direct from the manufacturer. Other items they buy, in large quantity, from "Authorized Dealers". Every manufacturer/distributor knows this. If your LDS/PDC simply would say; "OK, you are shopping. Let's see what we can do to help." This thread would go away.
 
WarmWaterDiver:
Interestingly, Dive Rite does not have any beef with their dealers selling Dive Rite gear on line - including regulators and other "life support equipment".

That's correct, these warnings all relate to purchases from unauthorized dealers ... online or otherwise. I posted just a few, but I'm sure you'll find a similar warning on every mfg's site. These warnings all have a common theme. Basically, if you buy from ANY unauthorized dealer, the mfg can not guarantee the quality, pedigree, nor authenticity of the item. That's a potential risk that should be fully assessed before making a purchase for life support equipment.

A related, but slightly different, issue is online sales. Some mfgs still do not allow online sales of their products. Therefore, anyone offering them online is not authorized to sell nor service these products. In most cases, that doesn't totally exclude online dealers from selling these items ... they just can't sell the items online. As one example, I know that one major e-tailer is also an authorized dealer for ScubaPro and Atomics. You won't find these items advertised online, but you can purchase these products in their Rancho Santa Margarita, CA showroom ... in many cases, at the lower end of the pricing guidelines allowed by the mfg.

As you point out, Dive Rite does allow online sales of their items ... as do several other mfgs. If you do some research, you can find authorized online dealers (you pointed to a couple for Dive Rite). Some of these authorized online dealers will price match other online prices ... even if it's from an authorized dealer. In this scenario, you can possibly get the best risk versus reward outcome.
 
riguerin:
Basically, if you buy from ANY unauthorized dealer, the mfg can not guarantee the quality, pedigree, nor authenticity of the item. That's a potential risk that should be fully assessed before making a purchase for life support equipment.

That's it in a nutshell. No more need be said. Anything further is just more free adverts.
 
riguerin:
That's correct, these warnings all relate to purchases from unauthorized dealers ... online or otherwise. I posted just a few, but I'm sure you'll find a similar warning on every mfg's site. These warnings all have a common theme. Basically, if you buy from ANY unauthorized dealer, the mfg can not guarantee the quality, pedigree, nor authenticity of the item. That's a potential risk that should be fully assessed before making a purchase for life support equipment.QUOTE]

Once merchandise leaves the manufacturer's supervision, the quality, pedigree, or authenticity cannot be guaranteed. A dealer, authorized or not, is not under the manufacturer's supervision. Nor is the transportation company that moved the merchandise from the warehouse to the dealer. Should a dealer choose to alter the equipment that it sells, the manufacturer cannot do anything until after the fact. If a truck carrying a load of "authorized" merchandise with all proper manufacturer paperwork, instructions, warranty cards, etc. is hijacked, the pedigree is lost.

In other words, the risk mentioned is pervasive. There is a lot that can happen to merchandise during shipment to the sales outlet. Would you require a statement of authenticity from the seller?

And so on, and so on...
 
garyfotodiver:
... Would you require a statement of authenticity from the seller?

Nope. Buying life support equipment by from a reputable authorized dealer would suffice. Do you have a better suggestion ... perhaps a diver organized posse to hunt down SCUBA equipment truck hijacking thugs ? :05:
 
riguerin:
Nope. Buying life support equipment by from a reputable authorized dealer would suffice. Do you have a better suggestion ... perhaps a diver organized posse to hunt down SCUBA equipment truck hijacking thugs ? :05:

You are sooooo right, riguren. He left out locust, flood, or foreign invasion :)

I wanna volunteer for the diver posse.:D
 
riguerin:
That's correct, these warnings all relate to purchases from unauthorized dealers ... online or otherwise. I posted just a few, but I'm sure you'll find a similar warning on every mfg's site. These warnings all have a common theme. Basically, if you buy from ANY unauthorized dealer, the mfg can not guarantee the quality, pedigree, nor authenticity of the item. That's a potential risk that should be fully assessed before making a purchase for life support equipment.

A related, but slightly different, issue is online sales. Some mfgs still do not allow online sales of their products. Therefore, anyone offering them online is not authorized to sell nor service these products. In most cases, that doesn't totally exclude online dealers from selling these items ... they just can't sell the items online. As one example, I know that one major e-tailer is also an authorized dealer for ScubaPro and Atomics. You won't find these items advertised online, but you can purchase these products in their Rancho Santa Margarita, CA showroom ... in many cases, at the lower end of the pricing guidelines allowed by the mfg.

As you point out, Dive Rite does allow online sales of their items ... as do several other mfgs. If you do some research, you can find authorized online dealers (you pointed to a couple for Dive Rite). Some of these authorized online dealers will price match other online prices ... even if it's from an authorized dealer. In this scenario, you can possibly get the best risk versus reward outcome.

I accept your challenge. Can you post a link to such a disclaimer for TUSA products, a brand well known for not restricting internet sales of their product?

And, if you continue along my post, you'll see it's in reference to the argument its less safe to purchase life support equipment via the internet. To only respond to half my post is as is said in the media, taking things out of context. I would welcome your comments on how this relates to safety of an item inherent for LDS vs. internet purchase, all else being equal.
 

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