YOKE vs DIN

[sourdough]

the U.S. Navy tables

Navy dive tables... what in tarnation?! Are you looking for a spot to eat your lunch sir?

Just mind Schrotter's recommended ascent, a uniform decompression of 20 minutes per atmosphere of pressure, don't you mind Haldane's work, we're not diving goats here goddammit these suits are designed for men.

 

[Tracerbullet]

Where are you finding a $20 adapter?

that was going to be my question. Mine was certainly more expensive than that

 

[sourdough]

that was going to be my question. Mine was certainly more expensive than that

my first spouse was more expensive than the second, didn't function any better though.

links to $20 adapters were posted

 

[The Chairman]

However Americans are used to (habit) YOKE

I'm an American and yet I use DIN. Why keep trying to make this a geopolitical issue when you also write that you don't want that???

There is no increased safety with DIN over yoke for most Scuba applications. At least I've never seen a study to suggest otherwise. Have a study? Then trot it out for us to change our collective minds. Both rely on captured O-rings mating to a face. I would suggest that the biggest reason yoke are used over DIN, is that they are quick and easy, not to mention refitting all of the yoke regs out there would cost a good bit. Time is money and money is money, so economically, DIN is inferior... until it's not. Like here in Cave Country.

BTW, I've seen tanks dropped, both DIN and yoke. Sometimes the DIN valve is dented making it impossible to screw in a reg. I actually own the tap for this (BPS 5/8"-18???) so I can salvage the valve and keep diving. I've never had a problem with a yoke valve in that regard.

From the best of my recollection, DIN was designed to handle higher pressure tanks (300 bar) for commercial applications. Sport DIN (230 bar) was also created (shorter) for the diving public but never caught on. The difference is in the length, with Sport DIN being significantly shorter. You could seat a DIN reg in a Sport DIN valve but a Sport DIN reg could not be seated in a DIN valve. It turned out that the worry was unfounded, and all regs got Full DIN Today, the pro valves use the shorter Sport DIN specification, actually taking a bit less time to seat your reg.

It's been my experience that many instructors promote what they sell/teach/dive by needlessly denigrating what they don't as "junk" We all know that they would never sell/teach/dive junk. right? Quite often this gear view is passed down to their students and patrons, so it's not surprising to see them here on ScubaBoard. Dive what you feel comfortable with and try not to abuse those that don't dive your way.

 

[drrich2]

If an advantage of DiN is the ability to handle higher pressure, then if the U.S, market went to predominantly DIN, is it likely we’d see more higher pressure, larger capacity tanks? That would be quite a shift, involving compressors, tanks, etc… What happened with that in areas where DIN has dominated? In other words, to what extent is the theoretical advantage a practical one?

 

[lexvil]

First of all in order to avoid any further 'jibes', the only reason Germany was mentioned in the thread is because of the usage of YOKE vs DIN geographically. There's absolutely no reason to convert this into a geopolitical issue. I am Greek by the way.

'Habit' & 'Intelligence' are two different things as are 'Superiority' & 'Understanding'.

DIN is superior technologically. Safer, smaller and lighter. I strongly believe that most divers understand that, independently of their nationality. However Americans are used to (habit) YOKE as dive operators promote them and you are exposed to them since your OWD. DIN is an improvement derived from the need to have gas at higher pressures.

Intelligent people challenge established technologies and adopt innovation when the benefits outweigh the disadvantages. Stupid is to pretend those benefits don't exist due to Ego and personal preferences.
Stupid is to assume that someone is undermining the IQ of a whole Nation because of an open question on a Dive forum.

At the end of the day, you are not obliged to switch to DIN, the same way you could be still using a tank with a J valve, Navy Tables instead of a DC, etc.

Freedom of choice is a beautiful thing. Discussing facts, a different thing.

First off, since English is not your native language I compliment you in its use, I only wish more people here ( the US) could articulate their thoughts as well in its use. My post meant to point out that it was the feeling you were transmitting which I assume was not the intent. I use DIN unless I travel because the yoke predominates in the warm water world for reasons articulated by many here.

 

[El Diablo]

I'm an American and yet I use DIN. Why keep trying to make this a geopolitical issue when you also write that you don't want ???

Where did you saw that? I believe I made my position super clear. As I said, more and more YOKE users are changing to DIN in areas where YOKE is predominant. In this case it is US, it could be Wakanda (forever) instead, for me it is exactly the same. Perhaps we could have a little poll now and another one in a couple years to follow up the development?

DIN valves were actually invented by the US in the 50s for commercial diving. The Germans only improved upon the design. So you can all be proud.
DIN withstand higher pressures than YOKE, the O-rings are less exposed to the elements and usually in much better condition. Both O-rings are put under pressure but one O-ring is thicker and cannot move once pressurized while the other is thinner and sandwiched between 2 layers of metal that can be bumped and moved in any position. Also, the YOKE protrudes more than a DIN setup and therefore minimized the risk of entanglement or hitting it in any overhead environment. Those are the reasons why Tech divers, Cave divers and Wreck divers prefer DIN.

In the American NOAA (Office of Marine and Aviation Operations) manual it is stated that 'the DIN connection for regulators and valves is a more reliable connection than the more common YOKE fitting and is designed to work at higher pressures. With a DIN regulator and valve systems, the 1st stage actually threads into the valve body. The principle behind the DIN fittings is known as a "captured O-ring" because once the regulator is screwed into the valve, it is almost impossible for a O-ring failure to cause a loss of breathing gas...'

More reliable = Safer in my book (it seems in yours also as you chose DIN as well).

I agree with the argument that Compressors use A-Clamps for faster filling as well as the stress being reduced while filling vs a DIN fitting. Also if you are a kid, a woman or someone with smaller hands, removing an overtightened DIN stage can be challenging.

I also agree that it will take time to change, it always does and there will always be people that refuse to change.

In EU, we use a Donut insert when transporting our tanks. In the majority of Dive Centers this is only removed when attaching our regs and prevents any bending. If the hit is extremely hard, the only thing that can happen is that the insert becomes permanently 'fused' to the valve, becoming a YOKE. Folks learned from their mistakes.

Your DIN 200/300 BAR assessment is also correct. The 200 variants basically don't 'exist' anymore. Mind that in the majority of the Dive Centers we fill our 12L steel bottles anywhere from 220-230 bars (below the real limit and depending on the state and age of the tanks). That's an average of 3191 PSI on the lower end. I believe your AL tanks are rated below that?

Never agree with anyone saying that YOKE is garbage. It is sufficient for many folks although IMO the DIN advantages are far more important (safety, weight, size) than 15sec I need to remove the Donut or have to screw in an adapter if the Dive Center has outdated or insufficient gear.

Dive safe.

 

[The Chairman]

If an advantage of DiN is the ability to handle higher pressure, then if the U.S, market went to predominantly DIN, is it likely we’d see more higher pressure, larger capacity tanks? That would be quite a shift, involving compressors, tanks, etc… What happened with that in areas where DIN has dominated? In other words, to what extent is the theoretical advantage a practical one?

In two words? Cave fills.

 

[El Diablo]

First off, since English is not your native language I compliment you in its use, I only wish more people here ( the US) could articulate their thoughts as well in its use. My post meant to point out that it was the feeling you were transmitting which I assume was not the intent. I use DIN unless I travel because the yoke predominates in the warm water world for reasons articulated by many here.

Thank you very much for your kind words.

I totally understand your position, I just didn't wanted to get involved in any political situation as I expressed previously. Î felt slightly offended by the word 'stupid' as I never insinuated anything like that.
There are cultural differences between all of us but at the end of the day we are all here because of our love for scuba diving. FYI, I've worked and travelled to the US for many years and I really appreciate your country so never once in my head I would characterize an American as 'stupid' - nor any citizen of any country for that matter as stupidity is independent from nationality and geographic borders. I've also worked with Asia & Pacific but unfortunately, during my business trips, couldn't find enough free time to dive there...

I agree that YOKE is the 'standard' in many countries for the reasons we already discussed with other members. Basically now, the Dive Centers and their tank configurations mandate what system people purchases. As I wrote previously, I do see a trend towards DIN.

All good

 

[drrich2]

I also agree that it will take time to change, it always does and there will always be people that refuse to change.

But will it even happen? Most divers are recreational only, not tech. While a DIN connection might be more secure, if a yoke is secure enough, many might see it as a solution to a non-problem. Tolerating higher pressure connections is nice...if we're given smaller, lighter tanks with the same gas volume or same-sized tanks with higher gas volume; otherwise perhaps not much benefit.

Note: in past discussions, it was my understanding when you use a yoke adaptor to connect a DIN regulator to a tank, you basically lose the advantages of having DIN in the first place. The advantages are contingent upon having a DIN reg. hooked to a DIN tank, yes?

So far, for a rec.-only diver who mainly dives the U.S./Caribbean region, it doesn't sound like DIN is likely to make a compelling difference to drive a gear choice.

If yoke is easier for the dive op.s, then I must ask how many U.S.-based divers own their own regulators and dive their own tanks rather than rent.

I think DIN will have an uphill path to take over here.