Wreck v Cave Diving

[CAPTAIN SINBAD]

One thing the OP might consider is this, the average student working with an average instructor gets more inwater time in a cave class than a wreck pen class... simple logistics.

Secondly, the genesis of most modern techniques, gear mods, innovations, and the technical diver's mindset are seated in Cave diving.

So people venturing into overheads and looking to get into both caves and wrecks sometime in their lives should start doing Cave courses first? I had it planned the other way around but the above post made me re-think.

I am sure you must have heard that typical conversation that happens on New Jersey dive boats after everyone has finished their wreck dive. They surface from the wreck, get on the boat, pop open their soda cans and talk about how DIR-ness would not work in these specific waters because their situation is so special etc. It makes me think OK you have your point but why don't high level wreck divers then get together and standardize some agreed upon protocols, publish them and call them DIW?

 

[Wookie]

Northeast wreck divers join the cave diver's club. Best line: "If I'm going to wreck dive, I have to be good. I'm calling that Shadow Divers guy for a wreck class." as well as "There are no awards for wreck diving".

Hitler can't cave dive

<a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TPaoTSzWtzA" target="_blank">[video=youtube;TPaoTSzWtzA]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TPaoTSzWtzA[/video]

 

[CAPTAIN SINBAD]

Northeast wreck divers join the cave diver's club. Best line: "If I'm going to wreck dive, I have to be good. I'm calling that Shadow Divers guy for a wreck class." as well as "There are no awards for wreck diving".

Hitler can't cave dive

<a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TPaoTSzWtzA" target="_blank">[video=youtube;TPaoTSzWtzA]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TPaoTSzWtzA[/video]

Hilarious!

 

[Redshift]

The wreck diving environment is more dynamic than any cave. On a cave dive, I know that unless I'm at Ginnie Springs, I can park my decompression bottle near the entrance of the cave and it will be there when I get back, so I won't need to carry everything on the entire dive. I know that I won't have to contend with ripping currents that will cause me to do a drift decompression while wondering if the boat is following my DSMB and will be there to pick me up when I'm done. I know that I probably won't have 7-8' seas making it challenging to get back on to the boat (or wondering if the boat will even go out?).

But all that is just sea diving.

 

[oldschoolto]

That's bull**** - it was 1992.

Trimix started being taught in the cave community in 1987, in 1991 Billy Deans was treaching it in the wreck community, and IANTD had established course standards.

The Rouses had access to trimix, they were trained in it's use and they had experience with it. They used air anyway to save money and paid with their lives. Even then people had a clue that deep air wasn't a great idea.

I didn't say it wasn't used or that it was not available... I said it was just " STARTING " to be common...

Jim....

 

[DA Aquamaster]

I didn't say it wasn't used or that it was not available... I said it was just " STARTING " to be common...

Jim....

Yep, and the Rouses were already on board with it.

 

[DevonDiver]

why don't high level wreck divers then get together and standardize some agreed upon protocols, publish them and call them DIW?

I've been thinking this for a decade...(but not the DIW thing...LOL)

But the issue remains.... what use is a 'body' if there exists no feasible way to regulate diving activities. Cave diving has the 'luxury' of controlled access to most sites, certainly in developed countries. Wreck diving will never achieve that.

You might create a wreck-specific agency that had many high-profile 'names of repute', but it would only be an issue of prestige. You could still go to any other agency and get an equally 'valid' wreck card... and be allowed to go out an kill yourself on behalf of sub-standard training.

 

[Germie]

I would say do cave too. The reasons are already told here.
And the story's about sharp and instable parts in a wreck can be same in a cave. Especially in old mines.

 

[CAPTAIN SINBAD]

I've been thinking this for a decade...(but not the DIW thing...LOL)

But the issue remains.... what use is a 'body' if there exists no feasible way to regulate diving activities. Cave diving has the 'luxury' of controlled access to most sites, certainly in developed countries. Wreck diving will never achieve that.

You might create a wreck-specific agency that had many high-profile 'names of repute', but it would only be an issue of prestige. You could still go to any other agency and get an equally 'valid' wreck card... and be allowed to go out an kill yourself on behalf of sub-standard training.

Such an agency would appeal to folks like me who are stepping from Rec to Tec but are caught between agency standards that are well documented in books but seldom enforced at instructor level (as you have seen from your other posts) and religious dogma propagated in the most rigid and uncompromising manner for gear selling and self-glorification. In the world of scuba instruction, every instructor is a legend in his own mind so if top level wreck divers could get together and agree on some standardization of skills, procedures and curriculum then I think it will show that there is a consensus at the highest level on these things and thus they are beyond self-glorification of one individual.

As long as you graduation standards are higher and you are not "teaching the world how to dive" I would gladly sign up for "Fundies" or "Essentials" or anything else you may choose to call it.

 

[oldschoolto]

Just read this thread, Almost every cave diver thinks he needs to learn cave diving... Then he can dive wrecks , Because cave diving is so much more demanding and wrecks are easy ( IMHO how they feel )... I've never been in a cave... I have been 3 decks into a wreck solo salvaging brass... If you want to dive wrecks ( Penetrations ) then find a " GOOD " mentor... I would not take a scooter tour of Ginnie because I'm a wreck diver... And I would hope a cave diver would not think they are able to go play in the engine room in 150' deep open seas...

Jim..