Wreck v Cave Diving

[DA Aquamaster]

Just read this thread, Almost every cave diver thinks he needs to learn cave diving... Then he can dive wrecks , Because cave diving is so much more demanding and wrecks are easy ( IMHO how they feel )... I've never been in a cave... I have been 3 decks into a wreck solo salvaging brass... If you want to dive wrecks ( Penetrations ) then find a " GOOD " mentor... I would not take a scooter tour of Ginnie because I'm a wreck diver... And I would hope a cave diver would not think they are able to go play in the engine room in 150' deep open seas...

Jim..

In case you missed this:

My opinion is that all of the truly competent wreck divers have at least some cave training.

My opinion also is that cave diving is much safer. Part of it is a much better culture of training and equipment configuration, and part of it is the much more predictable environment in caves.

I've had a shark fisherman chumming up current from me during 45 minutes of decompression after an off shore wreck dive, but that's never happened in a cave. The hook never pulls loose during a cave the dive, I've never had a boat run over me on deco, and I've never had to abort a dive early due to a sudden storm moving in. I've also never had a cave collapse a couple weeks after I visited the engine room, as has been the case on a wreck.

You need cave training to dive in cave safely, and the same is true for wrecks if you're penetrating anything other than touristy wrecks that have been properly prepared for untrained OW divers.

But if you want to start somewhere, start with cave training. You'll learn a lot more in a lot less time that you ever would in an advanced wreck course.

As a cave diver, I don't think that cave divers automatically think they can safely go three decks down to the engine room of a wreck at 150 ft (although I've done exactly that down to 210 ft) and I am sure most of them will assess the additional risks involved in wreck diving.

However, the odds of a cave diver finding his way back out of a wreck without advanced wreck training is a lot better than the odds of a wreck diver finding his way back out of a cave without cave training - or more correctly, without the line skills pioneered by cave divers and introduced to the wreck community by cave divers.

Whether they'll admit it or not, the wreck community owes an awful lot to the cave community. Without cave divers introducing lines we'd have even more divers getting killed in wrecks when 'progressive penetration' without lines fails as a technique.

 

[BDSC]

Without cave divers introducing lines we'd have even more divers getting killed in wrecks when 'progressive penetration' without lines fails as a technique.

That's assuming that no wreck divers would have thought about running lines on their own. It's really not that novel of an idea I don't think.

 

[bl6394]

Both cave and wreck divers have the goal of surviving an overhead environment. Not the same overhead - nor the same goals. Wreck is an unstable environment that you may be recovering artifacts from - with generally limited penetration. Cave is a sensitive environment that you have 2000 - 10,000 feet of penetration. Different planning and (some) different skills - but some of the same skills too.

One of my mentors jokes that cave divers do it pretty (e.g. excellent buoyancy and trim and non-silting kicks) while wreck divers get it done (e.g. tearing up the wreck working in near zero vis - as they successfully recover the ship's bell and return uninjured.)

I started with cave training - and I am very focused on my buoyancy, trim and not silting. Then I did wreck training to remind me of some of the differences in the environment.

Be safe and have fun!

 

[oldschoolto]

In case you missed this:



As a cave diver, I don't think that cave divers automatically think they can safely go three decks down to the engine room of a wreck at 150 ft (although I've done exactly that down to 210 ft) and I am sure most of them will assess the additional risks involved in wreck diving.

However, the odds of a cave diver finding his way back out of a wreck without advanced wreck training is a lot better than the odds of a wreck diver finding his way back out of a cave without cave training - or more correctly, without the line skills pioneered by cave divers and introduced to the wreck community by cave divers.

Whether they'll admit it or not, the wreck community owes an awful lot to the cave community. Without cave divers introducing lines we'd have even more divers getting killed in wrecks when 'progressive penetration' without lines fails as a technique.

No, Didn't miss it.... I said " ALMOST ".... Then you go on and say "However, the odds of a cave diver finding his way back out of a wreck without advanced wreck training is a lot better than the odds of a wreck diver finding his way back out of a cave without cave training - or more correctly, without the line skills pioneered by cave divers and introduced to the wreck community by cave divers.

Jim...

And just to add; I don't like getting into pissing matches on the net... Devon Diver is right on the money..

 

[Nasser]

That's assuming that no wreck divers would have thought about running lines on their own. It's really not that novel of an idea I don't think.

Actually it was a novel idea for Wreck diving in the North East USA and was met with quite a bit of resistance when it was first being introduced from the Cave diving community. The typical argument being that "progressive penetration" is a much safer and proven method and the use of lines in a wreck is hazardous due to the higher risk of entanglement or severing a line on sharp edges inside the wreck. It took a while for line techniques to be accepted into the Wreck Diving community.

 

[tursiops]

It took a while for line techniques to be accepted into the Wreck Diving community.

I didn't realize it had been accepted! Maybe I'll start wreck diving again.

 

[Nasser]

I didn't realize it had been accepted! Maybe I'll start wreck diving again.

actually that's also debatable!

 

[oldschoolto]

I NEVER used a line... OR Tri-mix... Wreck diving... Just saying....

Jim....

 

[beester]

I have just one answer to that from Bruno Borelli (GUE Tech 2 instructor (not cave)... and it might surprise you )

https://vimeo.com/130793381

 

[DevonDiver]

It took a while for line techniques to be accepted into the Wreck Diving community.

Just a small point, but to remind that there is more than one single 'wreck community'. Wreck diving isn't limited to NE USA, just as cave diving isn't limited to Florida or Mexico. It's a big, wide, world out there...