"The Last Dive".
They were using AIR on a 70m deep wreck.
Wreck v Cave Diving
- Thread starter Veritably337
- Start date
Please register or login
Welcome to ScubaBoard, the world's largest scuba diving community. Registration is not required to read the forums, but we encourage you to join. Joining has its benefits and enables you to participate in the discussions.
Benefits of registering include
- Ability to post and comment on topics and discussions.
- A Free photo gallery to share your dive photos with the world.
- You can make this box go away
They were using AIR on a 70m deep wreck.
oldschoolto
Contributor
If you are going to dive wrecks take cavern/overhead (maybe combined with intro) and then advanced wreck.
As some have said, the skills necessary to dive in wrecks or caves should be the same. The Cave programme seems to have more dives though and, at least with TDI, a more extensive list of goals and requirements. But some other things are missing, such as shooting a lift bag. And when diving in the sea, the environment, diving from a boat, having that long ascent, etc can be quite a different experience for a cave diver used to inland caves.
But I don't think that transitioning from one type of diving to the other should be that complicated. Are they different? Yes, but cave A can also be completely different from cave B. Wreck C can be completely different from wreck D. Divers are also taught to evaluate the environment and have the brain turned on. It would be foolish to try and figure out how to adapt to the new environment on their own, but with proper guidance it should be ok...
As some have said, the skills necessary to dive in wrecks or caves should be the same. The Cave programme seems to have more dives though and, at least with TDI, a more extensive list of goals and requirements. But some other things are missing, such as shooting a lift bag. And when diving in the sea, the environment, diving from a boat, having that long ascent, etc can be quite a different experience for a cave diver used to inland caves.
But I don't think that transitioning from one type of diving to the other should be that complicated. Are they different? Yes, but cave A can also be completely different from cave B. Wreck C can be completely different from wreck D. Divers are also taught to evaluate the environment and have the brain turned on. It would be foolish to try and figure out how to adapt to the new environment on their own, but with proper guidance it should be ok...
The Rouses existed from the wreck but could not locate the deco bottles. The logical explanation was that both of them were heavily influenced by narcosis because of what happened inside the wreck.
I am quite happy to dive deep air to 60m+ but NOT inside a wreck.
---------- Post added January 11th, 2016 at 01:51 PM ----------
It was quite a shock when I looked around and didn't see any land mass on my first ever liveaboard tec wreck trip. A real Open Water dive!
dbulmer
Contributor
Andy
As a muppet who does not do penetration dives but does dive around wrecks I can appreciate your views.
("Both cave and wreck have their share of true experts..... and a goodly proportion of wannabies, muppets and has-beens also." I agree that statement is very important and needs to be borne in mind for any kind of overhead discussion so I'll admit to knowing bugger all about the subject before you pile in
)One of the things that cavers have over wreckies is that training is generally more easily accessible provided someone is prepared to travel.
What sort of questions should a prospective wreckie be asking their instructor?
And secondly, after training how does the overhead wreck diver maintain their newly acquired skills? (other than in the overhead)
As a cave instructor, I find myself agreeing with much of this.
The wreck diving environment is more dynamic than any cave. On a cave dive, I know that unless I'm at Ginnie Springs, I can park my decompression bottle near the entrance of the cave and it will be there when I get back, so I won't need to carry everything on the entire dive. I know that I won't have to contend with ripping currents that will cause me to do a drift decompression while wondering if the boat is following my DSMB and will be there to pick me up when I'm done. I know that I probably won't have 7-8' seas making it challenging to get back on to the boat (or wondering if the boat will even go out?).
On the other hand, I don't know of many wrecks where I can have penetrations in the thousands of feet.
BDSC
Contributor
If I had to pick I'd definitely get training in cave diving. I have been diving wrecks for years (not wrecks like the Andria Doria mind you) and never had any formal training in wreck diving. Depending on what types of wrecks a person is going to dive, I'm not sure you need a formal course. However, I'd never even think about going into a cave without the proper training. From everything I have heard, taking a course in cave diving makes a person a better overall diver.
Everyone knows that a Cave Diver is basically a frustrated Wreck diver that can't get over sea sickness ;-)
Seriously, while a lot of the skills in both are similar and even have their roots in Cave Diving, each environment has its own challenges and should be trained for accordingly. My suggestion is take the course that interests you the most and the environment where you see yourself spending more time in.
Seriously, while a lot of the skills in both are similar and even have their roots in Cave Diving, each environment has its own challenges and should be trained for accordingly. My suggestion is take the course that interests you the most and the environment where you see yourself spending more time in.
I must be a cave diver who does not suffer from seasickness then!
Teach both as many who have posted here do too. Have also written student and instructor materials for both. Similar courses, but not the same. Basic skills are similar, but then, so are the basic skills for decompression diving. The difference is the environment... and to some extent, the QA process... however, that's highly debatable, so let's stick with different environments. VERY VERY DIFFERENT. As a cave instructor, I would not presume to teach wreck penetration. As a wreck penetration instructor, I would not presume to teach a cave class.
One thing the OP might consider is this, the average student working with an average instructor gets more inwater time in a cave class than a wreck pen class... simple logistics.
Secondly, the genesis of most modern techniques, gear mods, innovations, and the technical diver's mindset are seated in Cave diving.
That's bull**** - it was 1992.
Trimix started being taught in the cave community in 1987, in 1991 Billy Deans was treaching it in the wreck community, and IANTD had established course standards.
The Rouses had access to trimix, they were trained in it's use and they had experience with it. They used air anyway to save money and paid with their lives. Even then people had a clue that deep air wasn't a great idea.
---------- Post added January 11th, 2016 at 08:46 AM ----------
I started as a great lakes wreck diver, moved to the east coast largely to dive different wrecks and then took Cavern and Intro classes to improve my line skills.
I've since become almost exclusively a cave diver and have never looked back, expanding my experience and skills with four week long trips a year to N FL or Mexico, as well as taking another class every year or two to maintain progression and work under the eye of an instructor every now and then.
My opinion is that all of the truly competent wreck divers have at least some cave training.
My opinion also is that cave diving is much safer. Part of it is a much better culture of training and equipment configuration, and part of it is the much more predictable environment in caves.
I've had a shark fisherman chumming up current from me during 45 minutes of decompression after an off shore wreck dive, but that's never happened in a cave. The hook never pulls loose during a cave the dive, I've never had a boat run over me on deco, and I've never had to abort a dive early due to a sudden storm moving in. I've also never had a cave collapse a couple weeks after I visited the engine room, as has been the case on a wreck.
You need cave training to dive in cave safely, and the same is true for wrecks if you're penetrating anything other than touristy wrecks that have been properly prepared for untrained OW divers.
But if you want to start somewhere, start with cave training. You'll learn a lot more in a lot less time that you ever would in an advanced wreck course.
Similar threads
