Wreck (external) vs Deep Specialty with/following AOW

[Wibble]

He is talking about "NAUI" training.

Ooops. Better say nothing lest be accused of saying something...

 

[BoltSnap]

Ooops. Better say nothing lest be accused of saying something...

Oh please say something, I am ALL ready for you

 

[johndiver999]

Of the things listed, night/ limited visibility is probably the most useful. Conditions can change with the tides and being comfortable when it happens is pretty useful. Where I live dive conditions are pretty consistently poor and we don't think twice about diving with less than 10' visibility and night dives are the only way you get to see some critters.

Agree strongly. Learning to work all your gear in the dark and making peace with the dark has huge advantages. Ascents, descents, buoyancy control, navigation, additional task loading, swimming at the surface are all harder in the dark. I find it a significant psychological challenge and more than just "useful".

 

[feldomatic]

For some reason Peak Performance Buoyancy is missing. As that's the only PADI course dealing with core skills, outside of the OW & AOW, it should be very important as every other course relies upon decent core skills.


Must not mention Fundies... No. Definitely not.

As I understand it (after talking with my instructor) NAUI wants you developing buoyancy all along the core curriculum and doesn't do the extra buoyancy specialty. Plus anything beyond Basic Scuba/OW is 1 on 1 or 1 on 2 training (small but growing shop)

I would move navigation up one. I would not negate night/low vis.

Nav was actually my number one choice before I saw the actual offerings (the VA program seems to limit what specialties you can do) The word navigation is, however, peppered across most of the other offerings (Wreck, Night, Search/Reco, etc)

I keep getting poked to be the navigator at the quarry, and I mostly do alright, but more formal training would be great. Presently I wouldn't trust myself to navigate in any kind of current.

 

[VikingDives]

• Wreck (external) - Is this still a gateway to tech wreck?

You'd have to look at which agency you wanted to do the technical wreck class with. For TDI, recreational wreck is a path to advanced wreck, but since you want to be cave certified, I'd recommend a robust cavern course... Cavern is also a route to advanced wreck for TDI, and generally a more robust course.

 

[formernuke]

What are your eventual goals?

I would say night being the most useful.

If you plan on going tech don't waste your time with deep or external wreck. I actually consider both to be a waste of time and money.

 

[Jim Lapenta]

It depends on who is teaching the external wreck class. Taught to the book? Most suck. Even more likely to be crap if it's a recreational instructor teaching it.
However, if the instructor is a technical wreck diver or technical wreck instructor, it can be a whole different ballgame.
When I taught it, it was 6 dives. 8 hours of classroom and land drills using a reel
We spent 1st dive surveying and sketching the wreck. 2nd dive was identifying external hazards and noting them on the sketch. 3rd dive was identifying possible entry and exit points including using a mirror to check for immediate hazards on the inside.
4th dive was laying lines on the exterior to aid in navigation. And responding to entanglement in said line. 5th was no/blacked out mask following the lines and ascent using an smb tied off to the wreck.
6th was limited penetration using a line and aiding a diver who had gotten entangled in a line.
I had more than one student tell me they'd never look at a recreational dive on a wreck the same way. And no way in hell they'd go inside without technical penetration training.
Including so called safe or clean wrecks.

 

[schuylerclark]

For our four specialties with SDI for Advanced, the wife and I chose Nitrox, Deep, Nav, and Wreck (limited penetration). Wreck was a lot of reel work and assessing dangers/access, and I now feel much more comfortable around wrecks. I also know better what to avoid, which wasn’t always obvious before. Deep was good, but more of an extension of things we already knew from OW and experience. Nav was in some ways the most interesting of the bunch, and the work on following headings and counting kick cycles gives me a lot more confidence in dives that don’t have a visual reference to follow (sandy bottoms or low vis). I think all of these are time and money well spent, assuming a good instructor, but maybe Deep slightly less so than the others. Our closest diving is the N Florida Gulf, so a lot of wrecks obviously.

 

[exodusmaximus]

I'm working on my certifications via the NAUI/VA program to use some GI bill money. For those who don't know, you take the courses in 3-class bundles. Usually they consist of a core course (Basic, Advanced, Rescue, Master Diver), a required medical specialty (CPR/First Aid, O2 provider, DAN First Aid Pro, Training Assistant) and another specialty (Nitrox was required for Basic Scuba and Rescue requires Search and Recovery) sometimes the student's choice from a limited selection (from what I can tell, the VA had to see some occupational value?) I was going to take the full navigation specialty but that isn't an option now that I can see my choices on the site)

For the Advanced Scuba Diver (AOW) bundle I get to pick my specialty, and the E-learning platform is giving me these choices:
(Note: this is separate from the "taste of specialty" dives done as part of AOW, this is a full specialty course with it's own card.)

• Nitrox (already got it)
• Full Face Mask (shop doesn't rent, free with gear purchase anyway)
• Drysuit (shop doesn't rent, also free with gear purchase)
• Underwater Digital Imaging (don't have a camera yet, and the whole internet thinks this class isn't worth it)
• Underwater Archaeology (not a lot of submerged civilizations in the Chesapeake yet)
• Hunting/Collecting (not my thing)
• Altitude (no plans for high altitude diving destinations in my near to mid term future)
• Night/Limited Visibility - No doubt useful, not keen on sharing the dark with fish, but I do want to go on a manta ray dive eventually
• Deep - does this actually unlock 100-130ft for some charters/sites?
• Wreck (external) - Is this still a gateway to tech wreck?

For background I've got 15 logged dives going into AOW and a strong desire to eventually be full cave/wreck certified.

To me, the last two are the obvious choices, but what's the most immediately useful at my level? (I'll get the other one in the Master Diver bundle)

I'm leaning toward wreck, but I kinda want to tell my instructor "Chef's choice" and take his recommendation/favorite.

Any thoughts or a specialty I ruled out prematurely?

I don't understand wreck external? Are you getting a dive required for your advanced? PADI doesn't have the wreck adventure dive for advanced open water so i can't comment. I got my wreck specialty (it was a 3 day, 5 dives course which included penetration). Deep adventure dive during advanced cert doesn't open max depth to 130ft (you need deep specialty, 2 days with 4 deep dives, 2 around 25-30 m and 2 over 35m (mine were 38 and 39.5m) where you perform different tasks etc. Since I had deep as a adventure dive, I was required to only do 3 deep dives (one 25-30m and 2 over 35m, but we did all 4 anyways) (attached was taken during a deep dive on Santa Rossa wall in cozumel (almost 40m (130 ft)

 

[Outbound]

As I understand it (after talking with my instructor) NAUI wants you developing buoyancy all along the core curriculum and doesn't do the extra buoyancy specialty. Plus anything beyond Basic Scuba/OW is 1 on 1 or 1 on 2 training (small but growing shop)



Nav was actually my number one choice before I saw the actual offerings (the VA program seems to limit what specialties you can do) The word navigation is, however, peppered across most of the other offerings (Wreck, Night, Search/Reco, etc)

I keep getting poked to be the navigator at the quarry, and I mostly do alright, but more formal training would be great. Presently I wouldn't trust myself to navigate in any kind of current.

You pretty much hit the nail on the head - perhaps unwittingly - when it comes to most specialty certifications. There are a few that are undoubtedly worth it for just about everyone. Certs such as nitrox and emergency oxygen provider, for example, or drysuit if you plan on diving dry. Then there are others that aren't worth it at all or are marginal at best, such as boat diver, and, far too often, peak performance buoyancy (I'm coming from a PADI perspective, so I don't know the offerings from other agencies as well). Then, in the middle of the pack, are certs that may or may not be worth it depending on the instructor, the student, and the student's longer term plans. Navigation, for example, can be fantastic for some people. But for others who already have good compass and land-based nav skills in hand, it might not matter as much. I think the same could be argued for night diver. It might be great for some people, but kinda meh for others, especially those who already have a lot of diving experience in varied conditions. Search and Recovery is a good one, but it depends on what your long-term diving goals are. Personally, I agree with Angelo that wreck is pretty much useless unless you plan on getting into penetration diving, in which case you are far better off finding an instructor who specializes in wreck penetrations.

Deep is one I put in its own category. It's certainly not essential, and a lot of folks won't ever bother going past 100' and therefore can get by with AOW and be fine. But I think it's a good one to have and essential if you plan on pushing your diving past the tropical vacation diver model.

In the end, I would think hard about what kind of diving you plan to or want to do as you develop and choose the courses that make the most sense for that plan, help fill in gaps in your experience/knowledge/skills, and that have local instructors that you gel with and who will not just teach to the bare minimum standards. If at some point you realize there is another cert you missed that you think would be helpful, you can certainly add it to your plan.

Others will undoubtedly disagree with my choices above, and that's totally fine. In the end, I would argue that as long as you learn something it isn't useless. Whether it's worth it or not is up do you, your bank account, and your personal diving journey.

Good luck!