Is the Deep cert really necessary?

[Lorenzoid]

I would say yes, but lots of follow up questions beginning with where are you diving? As a 20+ year instructor I tell students that they should take a specialty course for every new experience. I certainly know they can do it without my class, but will they have fun? Confidence = fun. Diving in the open Atlantic, off the coast of NC is challenging for inexperienced divers. It is up to me to drive the value in the course so that they come away more confident in the environment. Obviously covering the agencies training program first but then simple stuff like having the unlock a combination lock at 20 ft then at 120 ft, noting the delay under nitrogen loading and stress, having them record air consumption at various depths to understand that air consumption goes up with depth. To tech oriented divers this may sound like child’s play, I get that. However, I focus on building confidence in recreational divers with simple and practical exercises under supervision.

Most dive operations that I have used off the coast of NC require advanced open water cert including deep and wreck specialties because most of our sites are wrecks and deep.
You are most likely not going to see the bottom from the surface, nor the surface from the bottom and it freaks some people out who have only done tropical 60’ dives. To go visit U352, most students will kill their tank with only 5 minutes of bottom time due to stress and depth. Don’t you want those first couple of dives with a competent dive leader or instructor?

I have never had a student take a specialty course from me that said it was a waste of time or money and I know I’m not that good. I think it’s because they left more confident.

I'm just one data point, but the awareness exercises you mention relating to narcosis and air consumption, as well as the classroom discussions of all the risks and possible risk mitigation choices, had the opposite effect on me. Rather than instilling confidence, it left me with a feeling that there were so many variables, which my instructor did not give me a clear procedure for dealing with collectively, that I was not prepared to plan and execute these kinds of dives on my own with enough of a safety margin to suit my risk tolerance (which is admittedly low). Sure, I felt some confidence in the instructor during the course that the dives we were doing together were safe enough, as I have on many a trust-me dive, but I did not feel confident enough to go back and do the same thing on my own. Again, I'm just one data point, but I did not leave the course feeling more confident.

 

[tursiops]

I'm just one data point, but the awareness exercises you mention relating to narcosis and air consumption, as well as the classroom discussions of all the risks and possible risk mitigation choices, had the opposite effect on me. Rather than instilling confidence, it left me with a feeling that there were so many variables, which my instructor did not give me a clear procedure for dealing with collectively, that I was not prepared to plan and execute these kinds of dives on my own with enough of a safety margin to suit my risk tolerance (which is admittedly low). Sure, I felt some confidence in the instructor during the course that the dives we were doing together were safe enough, as I have on many a trust-me dive, but I did not feel confident enough to go back and do the same thing on my own. Again, I'm just one data point, but I did not leave the course feeling more confident.

There is an old adage for instructors: Tell the students what they need to know, not everything you know.

 

[Lorenzoid]

There is an old adage for instructors: Tell the students what they need to know, not everything you know.

That's a good adage. I'm not sure I understand what you're getting at, though.

 

[OMyMyOHellYes]

I, too, don't understand people not taking something like that more. It just makes more sense for people who dive spots where the max depth is approaching rec limits.

I am intending on doing a RAID's Tec 50 course sometime in the near future. Not so much to get to 164' (though that would be cool to actually visit the Oriskany, not just her exhaust stack), but to increase my time at depth. I think sidemount would be cool to get too.

 

[tursiops]

That's a good adage. I'm not sure I understand what you're getting at, though.

He apparently dumped everything on you, and it was overwhelming.

 

[cousindna]

Maybe,. But it is just as likely that he is an old retired PADI instructor who is confused by the difference between the MOD for 32% and the recreational depth limits.

You refer to yourself as a Marine Scientist and a Master Instructor and this is the **** you post. I applaud your achievements but your total lack of thinking on this issue is reprehensible. ZERO credibility and unethical - ad hominin attack on the poster and no meaningful response to the questions at hand. You (and those who parroted you) don't know the correct answers

General Rules
• Ascend from all dives at a rate not to exceed 18m (most DC's now use 9m/per minute) per minute.
• When planning a dive in cold water or under conditions that might be strenuous, plan the dive assuming the depth is 4m deeper than actual.
• Plan repetitive dives so each successive dive is to a shallower depth. Limit repetitive dives to 30m or shallower.
• Never exceed the limits of this planner and, whenever possible, avoid diving to the limits of the planner. 42m is for emergency purposes only, do not dive to this depth.

 

[tursiops]

General Rules
• Ascend from all dives at a rate not to exceed 18m (most DC's now use 9m/per minute) per minute.
• When planning a dive in cold water or under conditions that might be strenuous, plan the dive assuming the depth is 4m deeper than actual.
• Plan repetitive dives so each successive dive is to a shallower depth. Limit repetitive dives to 30m or shallower.
• Never exceed the limits of this planner and, whenever possible, avoid diving to the limits of the planner. 42m is for emergency purposes only, do not dive to this depth.

So you are quoting the material on PADI's RDP, copyright 1985, as some kind of master plan we should follow? Is it possible we have moved beyond the RDP in the last 39 years?
And what do these general rules have to do with your assertion that the 130ft recreational limit is somehow related to O2 toxicity?

 

[theminidiver]

Did the OP ever come back?

Hi, I'm here!

I read all the responses as soon as every notification arrives.

I didn't reply again because I don't know why SB threads tend to create a little chaos and ego-arguing outside of the main topic haha (you all know it's true). Although the vast majority of the replies contain really valuable advice and information, I appreciate you all for that

But after reading all the responses and talking with two instructors, I decided to take the Deep Diver course to have a better understanding of how my body reacts at deeper depths.

The two instructors said that with my current certifications (OW, AOW, Nitrox, Rescue, Equipment, etc.), I already have most of the theoretical knowledge that the course offers.

For example, I've never experienced narcosis. Do I really need to take a course only for that? I don't think so. But getting there with an instructor, during a course, maybe I can understand and know how to react better if needed.
And also, maybe someday I'll go to a dive site and the operator will require it.

Again, thank you all for all the deeply valuable information!

 

[JonnieB]

Funny as the Mola Mola in Crystal Bay Indonesia are often at 35m depth when I took a video of them.
Dan has dived with them them at 40m.

Pigmy sea horse at 32m depth.

View attachment 849198

This black frog fish was taken at the wreck site at Alona Beach Panglao Bohol. Often between 35m - 40m depth.

Sure all your pics can be found deep...they can also be found shallow. I recently saw some pics of snorkelers seeing molas at Nusa Penida and I've seen Pygmies at 10 meters. I think the general point is for most recreational scuba divers interested in marine life, the majority of what they dive to see is at 30 meters or less.

 

[JonnieB]

One of the things that the PADI deep cert does provide is some experience doing an extended emergency decompression stop while sharing air. Outside of technical diving courses, I am not aware of any other courses that give the diver that sort experience.

I was once on a deeper recreational dive where a diver at the safety stop terminated the safety stop early due to an out of air situation. Rather than sharing air, he went to the surface. Apparently, he did not feel comfortable sharing air and doing a safety stop at the same time.

That's crazy...uncomfortably sharing air when you're practically at the surface in the least stressful conditions. I wonder what they'd be like down deep; the diver actually missed a great training opportunity. Another reason I prefer diving solo with divers like this allowed in the water.