Would you stay away from a dive shop that had an accident?

[rick00001967]

We're talking about normal OW diving and that is very safe.

Statistically you certainly are correct. no one can argue.
My only point was that not all dives are created equal.
Even some dives considered "normal ow" dives are more risky than others.
We of course hopefully use training and proper equip to mitigate those risks.
But imho allowing your overweight gramma to take your two 13 year kids to devils throat, on day one of their vacation, on a single tank, in high current, with no special training or added equip, is pretty risky thing to do. Possibly even down right stupid. But people do it.
It certainly is a much higher risk than them jumping into 20 feet of water on a calm day with a dm or instructor after doing a detailed refresher.

 

[CT-Rich]

No spinning for me at all, just you.

After all mostly done in pairs for no reason, do pre checks on all gear for no reason, routine service of all gear for no reason. But go on with your false beliefs. Based on some of your other post I expect to hear about you in the accidents thread at some point.

I do virtually no pre-drive checks on my car. Most of the time I ignore the check engine light on the dash. I try to remember to check the oil, tire pressure and the tread conditions on my car, but it is at best sporadic. By your metric The airlines, which keep meticulous service records, require hours and hours of simulations and training for air crews and retire airframes after a certain number of flight hours should be far more dangerous than driving.

But it's not. Driving is far more dangerous.

You are following the same illogic that caused the Titan submarine disaster. He thought that because most submarine accidents were caused by human error, they were spending too much time worrying about making the submarines safe....

Diving is safe because divers make it safe.

 

[L13]

That is a very generalized statement that certainly does not hold true for all types of diving. Cave. Deep deco dives. Deep wreck penetration etc etc for example

Look what forum you are on: "Basic Scuba". Those other things require extra training and equipment.

Is hiking up your local hill high risk because people die climbing Mount Everest?

 

[Pandarism]

By that view of risk, commercial airline travel is high risk. Hundreds of people are dependent on one life support system that must be operated properly by the crew, otherwise they all die. And yet most of us would consider air travel a low risk activity (because the support system is reliable when operated properly, and the operators are well trained).

Commercial airliners are maintained by hundreds of mechanic, engineers, QA inspectors, CASA.

You are not expected to carry your own life support system on your back or side whilst flying. I don’t see a pre-dive maintenance crew waiting to check you over before every dive?

If there was a loss of cabin pressure the airliner has mitigation in the form of emergency O2. Even at 29000 feet there is 6.9% oxygen.

Scuba diving even at 1 foot there is 0% oxygen.

Hence risk.

Probably a bad example comparing commercial flight safety and risk to scuba diving

 

[berndo]

But imho allowing your overweight gramma to take your two 13 year kids to devils throat, on day one of their vacation, on a single tank, in high current, with no special training or added equip, is pretty risky thing to do.

Sure. I think the vast majority of dives around the world are done on vacation in water shallower than 100', good or ok viz and with no or very little current. That's what I think of when I hear 'basic scuba'.

 

[wetb4igetinthewater]

I don't know if this violates the rule of this group, but there have been about a half dozen deaths in my area over the past 15 years or so. Most during open water training. I have little information beyond what was reported in the media with one exception from an instructor from a different shop who was teaching at the same site for one particular training death.

 

[formernuke]

Give me a break... We don't drive on bald tires and with seatbelts to mitigate risk. That we you bring a safe second stage doesn't mean diving is dangerous, it means that it is safer if you learn and follow rules that make it safe. If you decide Stop lights don't apply to you, you make driving (or bicycle riding or being a pedestrian) extremely dangerous.

I have had exactly 0 (zero) OOA situations in hundreds of dives. I still bring an octo on every dive and on certain dives I would bring a completely redundant air supply. Your typical recreational, NDL diving is extremely safe. Just like any sport, you can f*** around and find out. Compared with skiing or mountain biking it is probably SAFER and has a lower physical fitness barrier than most other sports.

Can you die? Certainly. A bad hiking guide can get you killed.

To the OP. If someone dies on dive, should you avoid the shop? Was it some overweight guy with COPD that rented gear and drown during a cardiac event? Did they leave a dive site with people still in the water? Was it a student that was overweighted, panicky and left unattended on the bottom during a class by the shop owner? Was it a regulator failure immediately after servicing?

Most people, on the advise of their lawyers are going to keep their mouth's shut in aftermath of a diving accident. Information out of context can create a legal nightmare.

If you have a bad vibe about a particular shop that has been associated with a diver's death. Follow your gut instinct. If you have been on a dive and saw the boat or crew do questionable/ unsafe practices, follow your gut. At the end of the day, YOU are responsible for your own safety.

You don't make low risk activities safe, you make high risk activities safe.

If I go to blue hills and rent ski equipment do I need to show that I have a course by a professional ski instructor?

Does a hiking guide for low key hikes require the amount of training and insurance a DM does?

Just because you can do something safely does not mean it's not high risk, it means there is risk mitigation involved. Look at the hobbies out there, look at the volume of risk mitigation involved in diving, very few hobbies involve the extremely high volume of risk mitigation diving does.

 

[formernuke]

Commercial air travel?

Again a lot of risk mitigation goes into that.

 

[formernuke]

The airlines, which keep meticulous service records, require hours and hours of simulations and training for air crews and retire airframes after a certain number of flight hours should be far more dangerous than driving.

It is more dangerous, that is the reason they do all that, they are taking a very high risk thing and doing risk mitigation and management. A very large amount of it.

And remind me to stay away from you if your driving your car.

 

[formernuke]

I do virtually no pre-drive checks on my car. Most of the time I ignore the check engine light on the dash. I try to remember to check the oil, tire pressure and the tread conditions on my car, but it is at best sporadic. By your metric The airlines, which keep meticulous service records, require hours and hours of simulations and training for air crews and retire airframes after a certain number of flight hours should be far more dangerous than driving.

But it's not. Driving is far more dangerous.

You are following the same illogic that caused the Titan submarine disaster. He thought that because most submarine accidents were caused by human error, they were spending too much time worrying about making the submarines safe....

Diving is safe because divers make it safe.

The activity of driving is safer than flying.

Why is driving statically more dangerous, because of what you stated, very little risk management. Flying on the other hand has a lot of risk management. Also pure volume of number of people driving at any one time vs Flying.

I'm not at all following the Titan moron he did the exact opposite.