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Would you expect compensation from a live-aboard operator if
- Thread starter djanni
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R
redacted
Guest
It looks like they have some USA based elements. I wonder if they keep any of their $$$ in the US. From their web site.
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PO Box 310
Mills, WY 82644 USA
1.307.235.0683
1.307.235.0686 Fax
Yes, they may be in the driver's seat on this. They can make this good publicity or bad publicity. You just got to love the internet.
Crush (Virginia USA)
Registered
I took a cruise about 2 months ago and in front of every entrance into the dining area there was a person handing out the antiseptic/disinfectant towellets. Before the fancing sit down dinners there were the towelettes. Before the burger stand there were the towelettes. The crew was constantly wiping down banisters and door knobs. If they had no fear of lawsuits then it was their fear of bad publicity.
And frankly that is what this guy is getting from this board. Bad press. Now when someone does a google search on his name... BAM... there it is. So in effect he's already been punished.
A golf course once gave me a free round after a friend and I were harassed by the course ranger for playing poorly and disturbing the other golfers. noon and 120 degrees in August in Palm Springs where there were no other golfers. My complaint letter gave us a free round of golf. We never used it. My point being if they gave you a free week or 50% off your next trip would you use it?
And frankly that is what this guy is getting from this board. Bad press. Now when someone does a google search on his name... BAM... there it is. So in effect he's already been punished.
A golf course once gave me a free round after a friend and I were harassed by the course ranger for playing poorly and disturbing the other golfers. noon and 120 degrees in August in Palm Springs where there were no other golfers. My complaint letter gave us a free round of golf. We never used it. My point being if they gave you a free week or 50% off your next trip would you use it?
Well if you're going to attack my integrity... :lol:
The fact that a crew member was not the origin of the virus and that they appologized and were upfront about everyhing tells me they were trying to do the right thing. And in doing the right thing it seems that they under estimated the seriousness of the virus.
I'm sure with as many people as they come in contact with, they get exposed to alot of little bugs that they just blow off. So I don't feel that the crew wronged anyone as much as they made a serious error in judgement, a mistake if you will. A mistake that made alot of people sick and not get what they payed for.
That being said, they need to make up for their "mistake" by either offering another trip in the future free of charge or offering some or all of their money back, for the liveaboard part only. But given the generic answer they gave when they were contacted by the group I don't believe they'll do this for "insurance reasons", so I think they'll have to sue.
Just so you know, I'v never sued anyone in my life and I detest sue happy people that are out to make a fast buck
I'd have to say no on the compensation. While one could legitimately argue that this was within the company's control, the plain hard truth is that it is virtually impossible to replace a significant number of crew members on short notice (I worked on a liveaboard for eight years, and even getting one or two fill-in crewmembers on short notice was EXTREMELY difficult). Some have posted that boats sometimes run short handed--while this is true it is usually short only a couple of crew members. Real negligence would be running the charter half staffed or with some poorly trained "stand-ins." That is how divers can be seriously hurt--not the simple inconvenience of coming down with the flu. On US flagged vessels it wouldn't even be legal to leave the dock with a substantial number of the crew off the boat.
EV could have cancelled the cruise, but that would have left a bitter taste in all the guests' mouths from the outset. It sounds as if the guests were aware of the risk, but chose to board the vessel anyway. While it would be a nice gesture on EV's behalf to offer something, I don't think that it should be required.
EV could have cancelled the cruise, but that would have left a bitter taste in all the guests' mouths from the outset. It sounds as if the guests were aware of the risk, but chose to board the vessel anyway. While it would be a nice gesture on EV's behalf to offer something, I don't think that it should be required.
Papa_Bear
Contributor
Any one ever hear of Tama-Flue? Or the Flue Shot? Please, it is your responsibility to protect yourself from a Virus! You can't tell where you got it? Ever hear of Anti-histamine? Been there done that!
Randy Harris
Executive Producer
My name is Randy Harris and I am the sales office supervisor for Explorer Ventures. I have of course followed this situation even during the week in question as we are all concerned with the progress of each trip on every boat, every week! I also recieved and carefully read every email correspondance between Clay and our guest who started this forum.
I am not here for a debate nor do I find it appropriate mention any guests names. I just spoke with Clay McCardell on this matter again after reading some of your responses. We both think it is important that we let you all know that nothing is more important to us than providing our valued guests a great dive trip!
I read the letter from our unhappy diver and was surpised to say the least. The way I read it was as we all took it here at Explorer Ventures. The letter to Clay had a restitution number and asked how we wanted to handle the transaction.... Not open for discussion? I have been with Explorer Ventures for 5 years and this is the first time I have seen a compensation demand such as this.
I take great pride in my job and I can go out and promote this company with 100% confidence. I know that Clay goes above and beyond anyone I have ever worked with to make sure that if we can't provide the great dive trip we plan for everyone on every trip that we get a second chance to do so by arranging a situation that would allow them to get back onboard.
I spoke with our fleet captain Jean Francios who was onbaord for this weeks trip and he informed me that they did everything in their power to contain the situation. He doubled as captain and chef becasue he was not ill. He also informed me that 3 of our guests arrived with illnesses they had previous to boarding.
I am glad the crew was not punished for being sick as I have worked boats and I can gaurantee you that many people work sick on boats of all kinds. I have worked on cruise ships as a dive instructor and liveabaords as well and have worked sick myself on both. The quality of crew it takes to run these boats cannot just be dropped off at the dock if someone gets sick and that is impossible to change.
We all here at Explorer Ventures are a family and we discuss and care about every single complaint or concern. Clay reads and goes over any issue on every trip review every week and I do not know any other owner who does that?
I have been employed in the scuba industry for 20 years and I have also owned my own dive and boat rental business and I can honestly say I have never seen a more concerned person than Clay McCardell about every one of his clients, guests, crew and staff! Clay is anything but cavalier about the reputation of his company and that is why we have been in business for 21 years and growing every year. He is known in this indusrty for his great reasoning and I know that if this sitution had been open for discussion instead of a demand there would have been a different outcome. I don't know what if anything would have been offered but I am sure the outcome would have been much different.
Unfortunately we are now faced with bad press because our guests and crew were sick on the boat last week. I have had no reports of anyone being sick onboard this week and have emailed the boat to verify. We all here hate that our guests did not get to make all the dives they anticipated and that they felt poorly during their holiday. No one including our crew wants to be sick but unfortunately we all get sick and I just hope that every does know that we do care about all of our guests onboard every boat, every week!
Randy Harris
Sales supervisor
Explorer Ventures
I am not here for a debate nor do I find it appropriate mention any guests names. I just spoke with Clay McCardell on this matter again after reading some of your responses. We both think it is important that we let you all know that nothing is more important to us than providing our valued guests a great dive trip!
I read the letter from our unhappy diver and was surpised to say the least. The way I read it was as we all took it here at Explorer Ventures. The letter to Clay had a restitution number and asked how we wanted to handle the transaction.... Not open for discussion? I have been with Explorer Ventures for 5 years and this is the first time I have seen a compensation demand such as this.
I take great pride in my job and I can go out and promote this company with 100% confidence. I know that Clay goes above and beyond anyone I have ever worked with to make sure that if we can't provide the great dive trip we plan for everyone on every trip that we get a second chance to do so by arranging a situation that would allow them to get back onboard.
I spoke with our fleet captain Jean Francios who was onbaord for this weeks trip and he informed me that they did everything in their power to contain the situation. He doubled as captain and chef becasue he was not ill. He also informed me that 3 of our guests arrived with illnesses they had previous to boarding.
I am glad the crew was not punished for being sick as I have worked boats and I can gaurantee you that many people work sick on boats of all kinds. I have worked on cruise ships as a dive instructor and liveabaords as well and have worked sick myself on both. The quality of crew it takes to run these boats cannot just be dropped off at the dock if someone gets sick and that is impossible to change.
We all here at Explorer Ventures are a family and we discuss and care about every single complaint or concern. Clay reads and goes over any issue on every trip review every week and I do not know any other owner who does that?
I have been employed in the scuba industry for 20 years and I have also owned my own dive and boat rental business and I can honestly say I have never seen a more concerned person than Clay McCardell about every one of his clients, guests, crew and staff! Clay is anything but cavalier about the reputation of his company and that is why we have been in business for 21 years and growing every year. He is known in this indusrty for his great reasoning and I know that if this sitution had been open for discussion instead of a demand there would have been a different outcome. I don't know what if anything would have been offered but I am sure the outcome would have been much different.
Unfortunately we are now faced with bad press because our guests and crew were sick on the boat last week. I have had no reports of anyone being sick onboard this week and have emailed the boat to verify. We all here hate that our guests did not get to make all the dives they anticipated and that they felt poorly during their holiday. No one including our crew wants to be sick but unfortunately we all get sick and I just hope that every does know that we do care about all of our guests onboard every boat, every week!
Randy Harris
Sales supervisor
Explorer Ventures
Okay. Throw out all the stuff about hygiene, crew members cooking, and bedding. Most respiratory viruses are spread by hand-to-hand or droplet contagion. Staying in the same room almost certainly didn't affect things, because most of these viruses are short-lived and killed by a minimum of light, dryness, or cleaning agents. They are passed by hand-to-hand or respiratory droplet transmission.
So the question becomes, if the dive op or boat administration knew that some of the crew were ill with a respiratory illness (aka cold), should they have cancelled the trip? What would you have thought if you had arrived at the boat and been told, "Sorry, you flew here and we know that, but we're sick, so we're not going out." I suspect you would have been even more angry.
On a liveaboard, you have a limited number of crew, and you can't just phone into town to replace them if they are ill. If there's an obviously contagious respiratory virus on board, the crew has to make a decision as to whether it's better to take you guys out for whatever diving you can get, or cancel the whole trip and have you eat the airfare you spent to get there. They decided to try to get you as much of a dive trip as they could, even considering that they were sick and probably weren't enjoying working very much.
It didn't turn out well, and it seems to me that the company that owns the boat might well have offered some compensation, even in the form of a discount or free dives in the future. But put yourself in the place of the captain . . . He's got, what, ten divers who want to make a trip? He's got a sick crew, who are dragging themselves around trying to set up gear, break down and clean gear, cook and clean up after a crew of people who are on vacation and thinking of nothing more than having a great set of dives. He's doing what he can to provide that. People got sick, and are really unhappy. Did he make the wrong initial decision?
On my trip to Indonesia, one of our fellow travellers got on the airplane with the beginnings of a cold that she knew about. In the course of the trip, half of us got sick and missed one or more of the most amazing, magical, fabulous dives we'll ever get a chance to do. Should we have sued her?
So the question becomes, if the dive op or boat administration knew that some of the crew were ill with a respiratory illness (aka cold), should they have cancelled the trip? What would you have thought if you had arrived at the boat and been told, "Sorry, you flew here and we know that, but we're sick, so we're not going out." I suspect you would have been even more angry.
On a liveaboard, you have a limited number of crew, and you can't just phone into town to replace them if they are ill. If there's an obviously contagious respiratory virus on board, the crew has to make a decision as to whether it's better to take you guys out for whatever diving you can get, or cancel the whole trip and have you eat the airfare you spent to get there. They decided to try to get you as much of a dive trip as they could, even considering that they were sick and probably weren't enjoying working very much.
It didn't turn out well, and it seems to me that the company that owns the boat might well have offered some compensation, even in the form of a discount or free dives in the future. But put yourself in the place of the captain . . . He's got, what, ten divers who want to make a trip? He's got a sick crew, who are dragging themselves around trying to set up gear, break down and clean gear, cook and clean up after a crew of people who are on vacation and thinking of nothing more than having a great set of dives. He's doing what he can to provide that. People got sick, and are really unhappy. Did he make the wrong initial decision?
On my trip to Indonesia, one of our fellow travellers got on the airplane with the beginnings of a cold that she knew about. In the course of the trip, half of us got sick and missed one or more of the most amazing, magical, fabulous dives we'll ever get a chance to do. Should we have sued her?
OP
djanni
Contributor
Randy: Quite missleading to say the least.
Below is a excerpt for my 1st e-mail to McCardell:
In order to compensate Carol and me for getting us sick and for the 31 dives we missed, we believe that Explorer Ventures should do the right thing and issue us a cash refund. We have decided not to include the $340 in tip monies or the other associated fees paid and only work off the base amount of $1,695 each. We realize a part of the fee includes meals and lodging, but for simplicity, I propose we use the total number of possible dives for these calculations. There were 27 possible dives. $1,695 divided by 27 is an equivalent of $63 per dive.
The value of Carol’s nine dives is $567. The value of my 14 dives total $882. Combined, the value of the trip for us was $1,449. We paid $3,390 for the two of us and when $1,449 in value is subtracted, our loss is $1,941.
Please advise how you would like to handle this transaction.
Don and Carol Janni
Misslead more and I'll post more. McCardell did say JF told him three other divers boarded ill and I replied that that was news to all of us and asked for their names so I could talk to them. Needless to say he never supplied the names. Humm...
Maybe I should post all 3 of my e-mails (complete) to McCardell. In my first e-mail to him I mentioned the names of 4 other sick divers so first I better make sure they don't mind.
Why didn't you mention the 3 e-mails he recieved from 3 other divers who got sick on the trip. Everyone asked for compensation. They all knew about this post and reviewed it before I posted it.
Geez man... you are not helping your cause.
rollerboi
Contributor
It sounds like you kind of started off on the wrong foot as far as addressing your concerns with the liveaboard, Don. That probably didn't help your good faith negotiations.
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