Would you expect compensation from a live-aboard operator if

[Randy Harris]

I am not misleading anyone, I have no reason to make a cause but simply trying to let everyone know that we do care. The statement from your email "how would you like to handle this transaction" is what I was talking about! You got sick on your vacation and feel jipped because of it but a virues is not Explorer Ventures fault; we as humans do get sick everywhere. You had then determined what you thought your losses were worth, let us know the amount and asked us how we wanted to pay?? A different approach may have yielded different results but we will never know.

When you start a conversation making demands and pointing fingers it put's everyone on the defense because we don't know what extremes someone will go to who holds the boat owner responsible for financial losses due to a virus brought on by who knows?
I am really sad about the outcome here, it could have been different. I hope all is well soon and I really hope your next dive trip is your dive trip of a lifetime!

 

[Jim Kerr]

On my trip to Indonesia, one of our fellow travellers got on the airplane with the beginnings of a cold that she knew about. In the course of the trip, half of us got sick and missed one or more of the most amazing, magical, fabulous dives we'll ever get a chance to do. Should we have sued her?

Absolutely!

 

[vladimir]

I read the letter from our unhappy diver and was surpised to say the least. The way I read it was as we all took it here at Explorer Ventures. The letter to Clay had a restitution number and asked how we wanted to handle the transaction.... Not open for discussion? I have been with Explorer Ventures for 5 years and this is the first time I have seen a compensation demand such as this.

Randy: Quite missleading to say the least.

Below is a excerpt for my 1st e-mail to McCardell:

In order to compensate Carol and me for getting us sick and for the 31 dives we missed, we believe that Explorer Ventures should do the right thing and issue us a cash refund. We have decided not to include the $340 in tip monies or the other associated fees paid and only work off the base amount of $1,695 each. We realize a part of the fee includes meals and lodging, but for simplicity, I propose we use the total number of possible dives for these calculations. There were 27 possible dives. $1,695 divided by 27 is an equivalent of $63 per dive.

The value of Carol’s nine dives is $567. The value of my 14 dives total $882. Combined, the value of the trip for us was $1,449. We paid $3,390 for the two of us and when $1,449 in value is subtracted, our loss is $1,941.

Please advise how you would like to handle this transaction.

Don and Carol Janni

Sorry Don, I don't agree with you. Your letter was, at best, impolitic, and sunchaser's characterization sounds accurate, based on what I've read here. It certainly wouldn't have put me in an apologetic or generous mood.

 

[Nick_W]

Yeah, sorry, you got sick on vacation, that's not really anyone's fault. And you also should consider not being so demanding and standoffish in your emails.

 

[DandyDon]

It might have been handled a bit better with different wording in the contact email. I certainly say things poorly at times, or just in ways that are seen other than I meant when the other person reads them.

I do have a softer way I generally use in approaching similar matters, but then it's hard to say. A liveaboard is a unique situation.

 

[Scuba_Si]

Hmm, so, next time you go on a liveaboard trip, you pick up the common cold in the airport/airline (many people do), and when you try to board the vessel, they tell you:

'Sorry, we were sued by someone because they got sick on the boat, so now on our policy is that we do not allow any guests with signs of illness to board, just incase we get sued, you will be issued a reimbursement within 60 days, please leave, now.' :11:

The other scenario pointed out by someone else above would be more amusing. Arriving at the dock to find the boat locked up, and the crew inside watching dvd's on the sofa with a comforter on their laps. Captain speaks over the intercom 'Sorry we have a severe case of the sniffles, so we're not running this week. Please go find a hotel and a diveshop, we'll refund you in a few weeks.'

Is that what you would have preferred? If it had played out like that i think something like this might have occurred:

Would you have insisted to speak to the Captain, even though he was potentially armed with a runny nose and hankerchief? Probably.

Would you have insisted that if it was just a mild flu or head cold that they take you out anyway 'Come on, we only get 2 weeks vacation a year, we'll give you a bit of extra tip'? Probably.

The Captain would then go find a waiver for you to sign saying you knew the risks of being on the boat, would you sign it? Probably.

And please add a No option for 'No i don't think you expect any compensation at all' It is totally weighted in your favour, apparently everyone who voted thinks you should get something which i'm sure in not the case. Much as with your e-mail, you have assumed that you are totally correct and you deserve recompense without discussion.

I think you will have forced Explorer Ventures to give you a token gesture, probably a few hundred dollars off. IF you genuinely think you're correct and do sue them, then i hope that one of the scenarios outlined above occurs.


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With regards to applying ISM regulations (Cruise Ships) relating to health and hygiene:

Having worked on liveaboards in various capacities there is nothing more annoying than someone turning up with a headcold or illness, but you do your best to look after them, taking them food to their room and exposing yourself [edit: to the illness, not to the guest]. If we were to apply ISM procedures and you (the guest) got sick with the flu 2 days into a 10 day Cocos trip would you be happy with the crew locking you in your room and passing you food thrice daily? Remember they could not risk contaminating themselves and you'd have to stay there 72 hours after signs of illness had disappeared. Again, just think of cause and effect and the ramifications on you and others if you do decide to sue for getting sick from an airborne pathogen.


But yes, cleaning with magic windex is something that is annoying on liveaboards. I used a bleach solution until a bit of damp residue remained in between some tiles, and a guest put their best Armani black shirt on there - it got stained/damaged and they threatened to sue me unless i paid for a new one.... Back to windex i guess... :14::blinking::mooner:

So that last one is BS, but something to be afraid of! Now, where is that troll symbol...

 

[nadwidny]

Randy: Quite missleading to say the least.

Below is a excerpt for my 1st e-mail to McCardell:

In order to compensate Carol and me for getting us sick and for the 31 dives we missed, we believe that Explorer Ventures should do the right thing and issue us a cash refund. We have decided not to include the $340 in tip monies or the other associated fees paid and only work off the base amount of $1,695 each. We realize a part of the fee includes meals and lodging, but for simplicity, I propose we use the total number of possible dives for these calculations. There were 27 possible dives. $1,695 divided by 27 is an equivalent of $63 per dive.

The value of Carol’s nine dives is $567. The value of my 14 dives total $882. Combined, the value of the trip for us was $1,449. We paid $3,390 for the two of us and when $1,449 in value is subtracted, our loss is $1,941.

Please advise how you would like to handle this transaction.

Don and Carol Janni

Misslead more and I'll post more. McCardell did say JF told him three other divers boarded ill and I replied that that was news to all of us and asked for their names so I could talk to them. Needless to say he never supplied the names. Humm...

Maybe I should post all 3 of my e-mails (complete) to McCardell. In my first e-mail to him I mentioned the names of 4 other sick divers so first I better make sure they don't mind.

Why didn't you mention the 3 e-mails he recieved from 3 other divers who got sick on the trip. Everyone asked for compensation. They all knew about this post and reviewed it before I posted it.

Geez man... you are not helping your cause.

Judging by the tone of your email, neither are you.

 

[DandyDon]

With regards to applying ISM regulations (Cruise Ships) relating to health and hygiene:

Having worked on liveaboards in various capacities there is nothing more annoying than someone turning up with a headcold or illness, but you do your best to look after them, taking them food to their room and exposing yourself [edit: to the illness, not to the guest]. If we were to apply ISM procedures and you (the guest) got sick with the flu 2 days into a 10 day Cocos trip would you be happy with the crew locking you in your room and passing you food thrice daily? Remember they could not risk contaminating themselves and you'd have to stay there 72 hours after signs of illness had disappeared. Again, just think of cause and effect and the ramifications on you and others if you do decide to sue for getting sick from an airborne pathogen

Hell, I didn't get that much when I got ill on a Blackbeards. Second day of diving I got chilled, then a flu replapse - total surprise as I'd beat it two weeks earlier. Went to bed for 2 or 3 days. The skippers did come make sure it was not DCS, then I was on my own. I needed fluids, but I was at the opposite end of the boat from the galley, didn't feel up to to, and they did not check on me after that.

I blew it off and escaped. Knew that they most I might get would be a discount on a return and had no interest in getting on one of those camping boats again.

 

[UnderwaterBumbleBee]

Sorry Don but I have to agree that your email was pretty demanding. I work in sales and anytime someone comes at me that way, I want to do the least for them. If you had used a different tone and not calculated your losses I think you would have received a different response.

We just went on the Nekton in Dec and a crew member died on our trip. We had sent an email to Nekton with our condolences and concerns about other issues on our trip. We received vouchers for a certain amount off a future trip, we never actually asked them for anything.They were aware it was being discussed on here as well. It was nice that they made the gesture but like someone else said, we aren't sure if we will even use the vouchers to be honest. If anything I would think maybe they might extend a voucher off a future trip but I doubt they would credit you anything.

 

[djanni]

I usually start a negociation by asking for what I want first. I would like cash and I proposed a method for calculating the amount.

My wife and I were not the only ones who got sick. There were 8 people who got sick. The boat was sick. Had it been just she and I then I would not have been upset over this. Now I'm being defensive.