Would you expect compensation from a live-aboard operator if

[DivingPrincessE]

After reading the whole thread, my .02 is that the liveaboard is responsible for you getting sick. They could have/should have done more to stop the spread of the virus. However your email was pretty demanding...especially demanding cash back

I think an email addressing your concerns without a price break down and without asking for monetary compensation would have been adequate. Since you missed 1/2 your dives, I think a 40-50% discount on a future trip would have been fair. They were sick, not unsafe...so it shouldn't be an issue of you not wanting to travel with them in the future (which would then make a discount for future trips moot).

If you sent an email voicing your concerns and they replied with "sorry" or offering a solution that you did not view as satisfactory...then you could have stated what you thought you deserved.

 

[djanni]

This is Carol, Don's wife. I have to jump into this a little bit.

First of all, we are NOT contemplating in any way suing over this matter! We don't do business that way. Clay never was open to any kind of compensation, good will gesture, even a voucher of some sort for a future trip.

There were not 3 sick divers boarding the boat when we did; we all got sick with the same symptoms. Clay was ill informed.

We tipped the crew because we felt they did their jobs under the circumstances; I think that illustrates that we are not out looking for a fast buck! The crew error was not putting the sick crew member to bed -- in her bed -- until she was no longer contagious. The crew works for tips, that is a large part of their income, and we chose not to penalize them -- even though they could have handled things much differently.

Maybe Don and I came on too strong, probably so, but there was never any response from Clay except sorry for your sickness. We do believe in establishing a starting point to let the person know the seriousness of the situation in our minds. In retrospect, the letter might have been softened, but our feelings regarding compensation is the same.

EV knew that this was a strong and highly contagious virus. We were greeted at the door of the boat with the news by the purser that she had a cold. She stayed in the salon and galley the entire day, evening and next morning (starting on Saturday) and by Monday, the first guest was sick -- the one that she had slept in his room the night before.

Hope this boils the situation down to some bare facts.

 

[NadMat]

I am not misleading anyone, I have no reason to make a cause but simply trying to let everyone know that we do care. The statement from your email "how would you like to handle this transaction" is what I was talking about! You got sick on your vacation and feel jipped because of it but a virues is not Explorer Ventures fault; we as humans do get sick everywhere. You had then determined what you thought your losses were worth, let us know the amount and asked us how we wanted to pay?? A different approach may have yielded different results but we will never know.

When you start a conversation making demands and pointing fingers it put's everyone on the defense because we don't know what extremes someone will go to who holds the boat owner responsible for financial losses due to a virus brought on by who knows?
I am really sad about the outcome here, it could have been different. I hope all is well soon and I really hope your next dive trip is your dive trip of a lifetime!

Well sunchaser, regardless of how poorly the customer (don ) handled their complaint and request for a refund, it is the businesses task to respond in a conciliatory (sp?) manner to soothe those feelings, from a customer who does have cause to complain if he was sent out with a sick crew and unable to dive because of what they passed along to him. It sounds like you just want to be pissed off about his request rather than work with him to a solution favorable to all. I find that to be less than I would expect from someone I was spending several thousand of my hard earned vacation money and time to dive with.

I believe I would have to rethink booking with EV based upon what information has been released in this thread.

 

[Mike Veitch]

the first guest was sick -- the one that she had slept in his room the night before.

Eh? now this gets interesting...

Or am i reading that incorrectly?

 

[Nick_W]

Eh? now this gets interesting...

Or am i reading that incorrectly?

Add in this:

putting the sick crew member to bed -- in her bed

And it is quite interesting indeed. Unless I too am reading this incorrectly.

If not, I have to ask what this crewmember was doing not in her own bed sleeping in the room of a male guest?

 

[Scuba Roy]

I was also on the trip with Don and my biggest concern was EV not being prepared for the situation. Having many years experience in the medical industry, an outbreak of this magnitude in a confined area is difficult to contain. However having a crew member as the original source of the virus was a mistake on the part of EV. It would have been better to leave the crew member behind and explain to your guests the issue then to expose your guests to an illness. The bottom line is EV is responsible for the safety of the crew and guests.

In regards to the correspondence with EV, perhaps it was harsh however ignoring the concern raised in the customer’s complaint was still not appropriate.

 

[murdrcycle]

My name is Randy Harris and I am the sales office supervisor for Explorer Ventures. I have of course followed this situation even during the week in question as we are all concerned with the progress of each trip on every boat, every week! I also recieved and carefully read every email correspondance between Clay and our guest who started this forum.

I am not here for a debate nor do I find it appropriate mention any guests names. I just spoke with Clay McCardell on this matter again after reading some of your responses. We both think it is important that we let you all know that nothing is more important to us than providing our valued guests a great dive trip!

I read the letter from our unhappy diver and was surpised to say the least. The way I read it was as we all took it here at Explorer Ventures. The letter to Clay had a restitution number and asked how we wanted to handle the transaction.... Not open for discussion? I have been with Explorer Ventures for 5 years and this is the first time I have seen a compensation demand such as this.

I take great pride in my job and I can go out and promote this company with 100% confidence. I know that Clay goes above and beyond anyone I have ever worked with to make sure that if we can't provide the great dive trip we plan for everyone on every trip that we get a second chance to do so by arranging a situation that would allow them to get back onboard.

I spoke with our fleet captain Jean Francios who was onbaord for this weeks trip and he informed me that they did everything in their power to contain the situation. He doubled as captain and chef becasue he was not ill. He also informed me that 3 of our guests arrived with illnesses they had previous to boarding.

I am glad the crew was not punished for being sick as I have worked boats and I can gaurantee you that many people work sick on boats of all kinds. I have worked on cruise ships as a dive instructor and liveabaords as well and have worked sick myself on both. The quality of crew it takes to run these boats cannot just be dropped off at the dock if someone gets sick and that is impossible to change.

We all here at Explorer Ventures are a family and we discuss and care about every single complaint or concern. Clay reads and goes over any issue on every trip review every week and I do not know any other owner who does that?

I have been employed in the scuba industry for 20 years and I have also owned my own dive and boat rental business and I can honestly say I have never seen a more concerned person than Clay McCardell about every one of his clients, guests, crew and staff! Clay is anything but cavalier about the reputation of his company and that is why we have been in business for 21 years and growing every year. He is known in this indusrty for his great reasoning and I know that if this sitution had been open for discussion instead of a demand there would have been a different outcome. I don't know what if anything would have been offered but I am sure the outcome would have been much different.

Unfortunately we are now faced with bad press because our guests and crew were sick on the boat last week. I have had no reports of anyone being sick onboard this week and have emailed the boat to verify. We all here hate that our guests did not get to make all the dives they anticipated and that they felt poorly during their holiday. No one including our crew wants to be sick but unfortunately we all get sick and I just hope that every does know that we do care about all of our guests onboard every boat, every week!

Randy Harris
Sales supervisor
Explorer Ventures

You do an awful lot of talking here without referencing any facts.

On a liveaboard, you have a limited number of crew, and you can't just phone into town to replace them if they are ill. If there's an obviously contagious respiratory virus on board, the crew has to make a decision as to whether it's better to take you guys out for whatever diving you can get, or cancel the whole trip and have you eat the airfare you spent to get there. They decided to try to get you as much of a dive trip as they could, even considering that they were sick and probably weren't enjoying working very much.

Or they could have decided to disinfect everything and have all of the employees wasxh their hands constantly and wear surgical masks. They are about a dime a piece. If they didn't have any they should get some. If there aren't any available locally they should have ordered them months ago.

I am not misleading anyone, I have no reason to make a cause but simply trying to let everyone know that we do care. The statement from your email "how would you like to handle this transaction" is what I was talking about! You got sick on your vacation and feel jipped because of it but a virues is not Explorer Ventures fault; we as humans do get sick everywhere. You had then determined what you thought your losses were worth, let us know the amount and asked us how we wanted to pay?? A different approach may have yielded different results but we will never know.

When you start a conversation making demands and pointing fingers it put's everyone on the defense because we don't know what extremes someone will go to who holds the boat owner responsible for financial losses due to a virus brought on by who knows?
I am really sad about the outcome here, it could have been different. I hope all is well soon and I really hope your next dive trip is your dive trip of a lifetime!

You say that you want to show that you care. Your actions both before and after the incident show just how much you do care.

Yeah, sorry, you got sick on vacation, that's not really anyone's fault. And you also should consider not being so demanding and standoffish in your emails.

Really? Are you really serious about this? Standoffish? Demanding ? He is asking nothing more than restitution for the services that he paid for that he subsequently wasn't able to enjoy simply because someone didn't take reasonable steps.

I mean, come on people - we aren't talking friggin brain surgery here. This is very simple - the company could have easily and inexpensively taken actions to curb this. The company could have very easily informed the passengers of exactly what was going on, that this was the 3rd contiguous week of illness on the ship, and that a number of the previous guests took ill as well and then let them decide. It doesn't sound like any of those things happened. If they did, then so be it.

And lawsuits - who needs 'em. This is going to damage their business much more than any lawsuit. After Sunchaser's response I will never ever in a million years use them. If Clay cared so much for his clients, then he would have agreed to the measley $1500 refund requested.

 

[utdivermatt]

[*]On arrival Saturday, January 26th and during the group welcome, the coughing/sniffling purser apologized to the 18 divers for being ill and went on to say that two weeks prior a guest brought a virus aboard which spread through the crew the following week.

Since everyone is so eager to blame EV, why stop there? Lets go after the guest from two weeks ago!



(As for a serious note, whatever happened to the group in the week in between? I haven't heard any people from that trip asking for refunds?)

 

[djanni]

The crew member slept in the guest room the night before we boarded. No suggestion is being made that there was anything other than that. No one was in the room the prior week.
Carol

 

[utdivermatt]

You do an aweful lot of talking here without referencing any facts.



Or they could have decided to disinfect everything and have all of the employees wasxh their hands constantly and wear surgical masks. They are about a dime a piece. If they didn't have any they should get some. If there aren't any available locally they should have ordered them months ago.



You say that you want to show that you care. Your actions both before and after the incident show just how much you do care.



Really? Are you really serious about this? Standoffish? Demanding ? He is asking nothing more than restitution for the services that he paid for that he subsequently wasn't able to enjoy simply because someone didn't take reasonable steps.

I mean, come on people - we aren't talking friggin brain surgery here. This is very simple - the company could have easily an inexpensively taken actions to curb this. The company could have very easily informed the passengers of exactly what was going on, that this was not the 3rd contiguous week of illness on the ship, and that a number of the previous guests took ill as well and then let them decide. It doesn't sound like any of those things happened. If they did, then so be it.

And lawsuits - who needs 'em. This is going to damage their business much more than any lawsuit. After Sunchaser's response I will never ever in a million years use them. If Clay cared so much for his clients, then he would have agreed to the measley $500 refund requested.

I see a $1500 demand, not a measely $500 request.

And last I looked at it, liveaboards don't promise diving, they promise the transportation to dive sites. Otherwise, they would serve no purpose to any non-divers, which I have personally seen on liveaboards. At the end of the day, is it good this happened, no. But should EV's name be tossed in the mud over this, absolutely not. This is no different than the other thousand reasons you can come up with for why someone would not get to dive on a vacation.